Gustavo Razzetti is a culture change instigator, speaker, and
CEO of Fearless Culture, a culture design consultancy. He helps
leaders build teams that talk about what matters—even when it’s
uncomfortable–through his books and tools, including the Culture Design Canvas. He is the author of Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

The beauty of a team is that we can get so much more done with collaboration. It also means that sometimes we surrender our responsibility to others. In this conversation, Gustavo and I explore what to do when a team gets stuck.

Key Points

• Conversations are the foundation of collaboration. Without them, teams quickly build conversational debt.
• We don’t stay silent because we’re scared. Rather, we stay quiet because we surrender our responsibility to others.
• Many of us overestimate our courage. We believe that we’ll say something, but studies show that often we do not.
• Forward Talk accomplishes two things: (1) addresses the real issue and (2) focuses on the future.
• See information as an opportunity instead of an obstacle. Courage can begin with admitting what you don’t know.
• Perspective is the choice to share your views instead of surrendering your judgment to social pressure.
• Responsibility is a commitment to understand the systemic issues instead of entering into blame.

Resources Mentioned

• Forward Talk: The Bold New Method for Getting Teams Unstuck by Gustavo Razzetti (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Getting Better at Internal Communication, with Roy Schwartz (episode 687)
• Help Your Team Coach Each Other, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 709)
• What Really Matters for Team Success, with Colin Fisher (episode 748)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

In this reflection episode, Bonni and I look back on recent past episodes and discuss questions, feedback, and insights that have surfaced from recent conversations.

Key Points

Dave responded to this question from Margaret Andrews:

• What does success look like for you?

“You can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” -Zig Ziglar

“Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal.” -Earl Nightingale

Bonni responded to this question:

• What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

Resources Mentioned

• To be of use by Marge Piercy

Related Episodes

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750)
• How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

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Shirzad has been the CEO of the largest coach training organization in the world. He has lectured on Positive Intelligence at Stanford University and has trained faculty at Stanford and Yale business schools. He is the author of The New York Times bestseller Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

By overusing our strengths, they can become our weakness. It’s just one of the many ways that leaders self-sabotage. In this conversation, Shirzad and I explore how to shift from self-sabotage to self-mastery.

Key Points

Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them. -Henry David Thoreau

• We are all a mixed bag of Darth Vader (saboteur) and Jedi knight (sage).
• By overusing a strength, you turn it into a weakness.
• Rather than attempting to eliminate all our saboteurs, it’s more helpful to be intentional about quieting them down.
• The four most common saboteurs that show up for leaders are Controller, Stickler, Hyper Achiever, Hyper Rational.
• Sage perspective: Every outcome or circumstance can be turned into an opportunity.
• A 10-second brain shift can help quiet your mind and engage the sage. One way to do this is to rub your fingers together and notice the friction to get your mind out of autopilot.

Resources Mentioned

• Positive Intelligence: Why Only 20% of Teams and Individuals Achieve Their True Potential and How You Can Achieve Yours by Shirzad Chamine (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Saboteur Assessment
• Dave’s assessment results

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)
• How to See What’s Holding You Back, with Marty Dubin (episode 765)

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Nilofer Merchant is ranked among the world’s top management thinkers by Thinkers50 and is the founder of The Intangible Labs, where she defines the leading indicators of modern work. She’s launched more than 100 products totaling $18B in revenue, and her TED Talk, Sitting Is the Smoking of Our Generation, ranks in the top 10% of all TED Talks. She is the author of Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When bad behavior happens in an organization, it’s the job of the leader to address it. In this conversation, Nilofer and I explore the strategies and tactics that will help you do this with clarity and effectiveness.

Key Points

• Bad behavior isn’t just “bad apples” – it’s also the organizational norms of “the barrel” that reinforce these behaviors.
• Most management norms are not persuasive; they are persistent.
• Begin by getting clarity on what’s acceptable and what’s not.
• Interrupt behavior without escalation. Consider phrases like, “Ouch,” or “I don’t know if you mean to…” or, “Did you intend that to be hurtful?”
• Culture is not defined by words on the wall—­it’s defined by what happens when someone crosses the line.
• Ask everyone to enforce norms, not just the person who was harmed.

Resources Mentioned

• Our Best Work: Break Free from the 24 Invisible Norms That Limit Us by Nilofer Merchant (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458)
• How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh (episode 615)
• Being Nice May Not Be Kind, with Graham Allcott (episode 767)

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Marcus Buckingham is the author of two of the best-selling business books of all time and has three of Harvard Business Review’s most circulated, industry-changing cover articles. After spending two decades studying excellence at the Gallup Organization and co-creating the StrengthsFinder tool, he built his own Coaching + Education firm and has been a prominent researcher on strengths, love, and leadership at work. He is the author of Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most everyone who listens to this podcast wants to go way beyond just hitting numbers and achieving goals. In addition to that, we want so deeply to see the people the work with flourish in their careers. In this conversation, Marcus and I explore the sequence of five feelings that make this work – and why a lot of it comes down to love.

Key Points

• Love dies, not from being killed – but from forgetting and neglect.
• The difference is massive in what we give a top rating to and everything else.
• Love is the deep and unwavering commitment to the flourishing of a human.
• Shift from leaders making decisions to leaders making experiences.

The five feelings follow this sequence:

1. Control
2. Harmony
3. Significance
4. Warmth of others
5. Growth

Resources Mentioned

• Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business by Marcus Buckingham (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Design Love In
• Lovethat.com

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Lead Top-Line Growth, with Tim Sanders (episode 299)
• Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)
• Clarifying Values for a Workplace People Love, with Anne Chow (episode 712)

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Anthony Klotz is an organizational psychologist and Professor of Management at the UCL School of Management. He is the person who both predicted and coined the term “The Great Resignation,” and his groundbreaking research on quitting, work design, and employee performance has made him a leading voice on the future of work. He is the author of Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us have attempted to support an employee dealing with a tough career moment. Not all the time, but certainly sometimes, we see those moments coming. When an employee is dealing with a big jolt – or about to – this conversation with Anthony will show you how to help.

Key Points

• Jolts have an outsized influence on people’s overall relationship with their work.
• Managers play a deciding role in how people respond to jolts and are in the best position to insulate the negative effects and amplify the positive effects.
• Managers can often anticipate and predict jolts to employees. The plans leaders have often become the jolts that others experience.
• If people can make sense of a jolting event, they are better able to deal with it constructively.
• The perception of how fair an event is and how fair the process was leading up to the event massively impacts how people perceive it.
• A clear explanation of why change is happening and what it means can substantially minimize the negative effects of career jolts.
• The tendency for organizations to delay bad news often is counterproductive to helping managers and employees navigate jolts.
• Partnership with others (managers, friends, family members) helps most of us better process what we might otherwise attempt to do alone.

Resources Mentioned

• Jolted: Why We Quit, When to Stay, and Why It Matters (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Anthony Klotz

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)
• Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems, with Elizabeth Lotardo (episode 764)

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Neri Karra Sillaman is a refugee-turned-entrepreneur, academic, and author whose work focuses on the importance of resilience, purpose, and vision in business and in life. She is the recipient of the Thinkers50 Radar Award, an entrepreneurship expert at the University of Oxford, and the founder of Neri Karra, a global luxury leather goods brand. She is the author of Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all know that the right connections can help in our careers, but how do we actually get more intentional about forging the connections that will be most meaningful and sustainable? In this conversation, Neri and I explore the key lessons from immigrant entrepreneurs and how their successes can help us all thrive.

Key Points

• Robins and titmice have vastly different outcomes because of their divergent abilities for flocking. Social capital is critical for success.
• Diversity brings many strengths – and it also introduces new challenges for connection. We can’t as easily rely on connections through traditional cultures or experiences.
• All of us have the ability to forge connections based on value. This is perhaps the most powerful homophily tie and accessible to everyone.
• The most successful immigrant entrepreneurs don’t rely on connections happening automatically and also don’t assume that relationships will be static.
• Focus on what unites you with others. Strengthen ties with other networks to avoid the risk of communities that are too insular.
• Be proactive and generous in sharing information and ideas to support others.

Resources Mentioned

• Pioneers: 8 Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs by Neri Karra Sillaman (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Three People Who Will Help You Grow, with Andrew C.M. Cooper (episode 700)
• The Way to Build Collective Power, with Ruchika T. Malhotra (episode 759)
• Using AI to Make Networking Easier, with Ruth Gotian (episode 766)

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David Yeager is a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin and the cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute. He is best known for his research conducted with Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton on short but powerful interventions that influence adolescent behaviors such as motivation, engagement, healthy eating, bullying, stress, mental health, and more. He is the author of 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Today is no different, and I often hear how leaders are struggling with motivating their younger employees. In this conversation, David and I explore the most recent research and practice for what actually works.

Key Points

• Older generations have been complaining about younger generations for all of recorded history. Often, our complaints are the result of our own past experiences.
• Many leaders experience the mentor’s dilemma: being nice and putting up with poor performance, or being critical and demanding higher performance.
• Status and respect for a young person are as critical as food and sleep to a baby. When satisfied, they can open up much better motivation and behavior.
• The mentor mindset embraces both high standards and high support for the young person you wish to motivate. Because this is a mindset, you can absolutely get better at it.
• When giving feedback to a young person, acknowledge the high standard you are setting and also tell the young person that you believe they can meet that standard.
• Young people have often experienced a lot of “enforcing” behavior from parents, teachers, and coaches. They assume this in the workplace if you don’t make a point to say otherwise.

Resources Mentioned

• 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People by David Yeager (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• The Power of Mindset (Masterclass)

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Challenge Directly and Care Personally, with Kim Scott (episode 302)
• How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)

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Apply to the Academy by Friday, March 20th.

In this episode, Dave shares the five things that he sees most commonly get in leaders’ ways:

1. Not asking for help.
2. Assuming knowledge drives behavior.
3. Setting the tactical bar too high.
4. Feeling worse before feeling better.
5. Not noticing any improvement.

Linda Hill is the Wallace Brett Donham Professor of Business Administration and Faculty Chair of the Leadership Initiative at Harvard Business School. Globally recognized as a top leadership and innovation expert, Linda has been named by Thinkers50 as one of the world’s top five management thinkers. She is the co-author, along with Emily Tedards and Jason Wild, of Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation (Amazon, Bookshop)*

We all want to think of ourselves as innovative, but it’s often not easy to know exactly what that means in practice. In this conversation, Linda and I explore what her research shows that leaders do to drive innovation successfully – and how each of us can get just a bit better.

Key Points

• Rather than coming up with a vision and asking people to follow it, innovation is about creating the culture and capabilities to create the future together.
• Innovation leadership shows up in three ways within organizations: the Architects, the Bridge Builders, and the Catalysts.
• Instead of setting the stage for themselves, innovative leaders set the stage for others.
• Often, we view horizontal relationships through the lens of organizational politics. The most effective innovation leaders view these relationships as leadership opportunities.
• Traditional team structures are a starting point, but not an ending point. Leaders at Mastercard, Pfizer, and Cleveland Clinic all brought in team members from both inside and outside the organization.
• Rather than thinking about a decision as final, it’s helpful for innovation leaders to frame it as a “working hypothesis.”

Resources Mentioned

• Genius at Scale: How Great Leaders Drive Innovation by Linda Hill, Emily Tedards, and Jason Wild (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• The Way Innovators Get Traction, with Tendayi Viki (episode 512)
• Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Are you at an inflection point? Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. He is the author of two bestselling books, Hooked and Indistractable, selling more than a million copies and translated in over 30 languages. He is the author of the new book, Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Most of us recognize that a huge part of what motivates us – or not – is our own thinking. In this conversation, Nir and I explore where our beliefs get in the way and how we can align them just a bit to help us move forward.

Key Points

• A sentence starting with “I am…” can be among the most dangerous in any language. Often, our beliefs limit us.
• Belief is the foundation of the motivation triangle that includes benefit and behavior. Yet, we often overlook beliefs.
• Curt Richter’s study of rats in the 1950s shows how an animal’s belief system can massively influence its behavior.
• The real question isn’t “Is this belief true?” but rather, “Does this belief serve me?”
• You can choose beliefs based on usefulness, not certainty.
• Difficulty may mean we are not cut out for something, but it might also be evidence of growth. Too often, we quit too soon.
• Progress comes from consistent action, not perfect plans.

Resources Mentioned

• Beyond Belief: The Science-Backed Way to Stop Limiting Yourself and Achieve Breakthrough Results (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Nir Eyal.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)
• How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)

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Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy are open until Friday, March 20th. Visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page to apply.

Rebecca Hinds is a leading expert on organizational behavior and the future of work. She founded and led the Work Innovation Lab at Asana and the Work AI Institute at Glean, where she partners with leading experts to help organizations transform their work with AI. She is the author of Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Considering the amount of time we all spend in meetings, it’s odd that most organizations do so little to measure meeting results. If that’s sounding familiar, this conversation between Rebecca and me will show you exactly how to get started.

Key Points

• Metrics that only measure the costs of meetings (dollars and time) can be useful, but rarely capture the full picture.
• Use Return on Time Invested (ROTI) anonymously to survey attendees to determine if a meeting was a good use of time. Also ask, “What would it take for you to improve your rating by one point?”
• Survey sparingly to avoid survey fatigue. Bringing in a survey 10% of the time is a benchmark to start from.
• If the amount of time in meetings vastly exceeds 10 hours a week, there’s likely an opportunity to scale back or redefine the work before or after meetings to use time better.
• Equal speaking time in meetings is a key indicator of team performance. Be transparent with employees about any technology you use to capture data.
• Punctuality and attendance rate are indicators of how valued meetings are for people.

Resources Mentioned

• Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done by Rebecca Hinds (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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Lily Zheng is a sought-after speaker, strategist, and organizational consultant who specializes in hands-on systemic change to turn positive intentions into positive outcomes for workplaces and everyone in them. A dedicated changemaker and advocate, Lily has had their work published in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR. They are the author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When it comes to fairness in the workplace, our society is quick to zero in on what divides us. Yet, there is broad agreement across all demographics on many key principles. In this conversation, Lily and I explore how leaders can influence the system to better work for everyone.

Key Points

• Many of us assume that fewer people support the value of diversity than actually do. When asked, 82% of people support pro-diversity statements.
• The most popular/traditional approaches to fixing fairness in the workplace tend to be the least effective.
• Our tendency is to focus on the behavior of individuals, when in fact organizational systems have the most significant impact on fairness.
• When considering a fairness initiative or intervention, begin with the practice of understanding and storytelling, just like many change initiatives.
• Resist the temptation to check boxes with “quick fixes” such as simply bringing in a speaker or hosting a one-time event. This rarely helps in any sustainable way and sometimes worsens existing dynamics.
• If you have a seat at the leadership table, make the case for thoughtful design and involvement of stakeholders at all points in the process, just as many effective organizations do on any strategic change initiative.

Resources Mentioned

• Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All by Lily Zheng (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)
• The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678)
• How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

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Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st-century transformation as their General Manager of Design. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times and Fortune Magazine. He is the author of Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all been through mandated change initiatives more times than we can count. But what if change wasn’t a mandate, but an offer – or even an invitation? In this conversation, Phil and I explore how to make change irresistible.

Key Points

• Change should be regarded as a high-value-add product.
• Don’t mandate change. Offer change.
• Your goal is sustained cultural adoption, not improving immediate competency.
• Start small, but cover all your bases on a reduced scale. Make a great cupcake instead of a mediocre wedding cake.
• People buy brands, not products. Branding change allows you to define the values and message that goes with it.

Resources Mentioned

• Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success by Phil Gilbert (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)
• How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 740)

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Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. He is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards. He writes for The New Yorker and other publications and is the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of us grew up in a world where most of our relationships started in person. That means many of us are beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss how to get better at connecting in a remote-first world.

Key Points

• When the telephone first became popular, people had to learn how to communicate with it. We’re at a similar inflection point with digital communication.
• We all have three kinds of conversations: (1) What’s this really about? (practical/decision-making), (2) How do we feel? (emotional), and (3) Who are we? (identity).
• Many of us tend to default to practical/decision-making conversations online and miss conversations about emotion and identity.
• Ask questions that invite an emotional or identity response. Instead of, “Where do you live?” consider a shift like, “What do you love about where you live?”
• Notice when people bring elements into a conversation that aren’t related to the topic. These clues, especially online, can point to entry points for emotional connection.
• Supercommunicators pay just a bit more attention to how people communicate than the rest of us. A slight shift can make a big difference.

Resources Mentioned

• Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection by Charles Duhigg (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)
• How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727)

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JP Elliott has decades of experience as a Talent and HR executive at companies like DICK’S Sporting Goods, McAfee, and Lenovo. He’s seen the challenges HR professionals face in growing their careers and increasing their impact. He is the host of the Future of HR podcast and on a mission to help HR professionals increase their business impact and accelerate their careers.

Leadership looks a little different if you head up a support role: human resources, IT, marketing, or finance. Often, we hear the term “business partner” used to describe what these leaders should be aiming for. In this conversation, JP and I explore how to shift from simply a “business partner” to a value creator.

Key Points

• You’re not just an HR leader. You’re a business leader with HR expertise.
• Think like a CEO even if you’re in HR. Do this to be moving beyond an execution-only mindset.
• Design talent strategies based on the future, not on the past.
• Build systems that reward outcomes, not bureaucracy.
• Build talent strategies that differentiate your business.
• Forecast leadership needs 3-5 years out and build a pipeline for critical roles.

Four questions that CEOs are asking:

1. Are we focused on the right strategic imperatives?
2. Are we operating effectively and efficiently?
3. Are we optimizing our business model to create competitive advantage?
4. Do we have a plan for sustainable and profitable growth?

Resources Mentioned

• Future of HR podcast by JP Elliott

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Start Managing Up, with Tom Henschel (episode 433)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)
• The Mindset to Help Your Organization Grow, with Tiffani Bova (episode 633)

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Graham Allcott is an author, speaker, entrepreneur, and the founder of Think Productive, a leading provider of training and consultancy. He is the author of multiple books, including the bestseller How to Be a Productivity Ninja and his latest book, KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

“Nice” means telling people what they want to hear. “Kind” means telling them what they need to hear. The best leaders are kind. In this conversation, Graham and I explore how we can do a better job of following through.

Key Points

• “Nice” means telling people what they want to hear, whereas “kind” means telling them what they need to hear.
• Kindness is both concern for others and concern for self. Just like with salted caramel, it’s best with the right balance.
• Leaders often do better articulating vision and values than they do with getting clear on expectations of value each person should provide.
• Being clear is an act of kindness in itself because it drives psychological safety.
• Use a personal mantra as a concise and powerful way to consistently remind people about what’s most important.
• Invite others to “give the last 20%” in feedback to uncover areas where clarity would help.

Resources Mentioned

• KIND: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work by Graham Allcott (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Rev Up for the Week (Graham’s newsletter)

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583)

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Ruth Gotian is the former Chief Learning Officer and Associate Professor of Education in Anaesthesiology at Weill Cornell Medicine. Thinkers50 has ranked her the #1 emerging management thinker in the world, and she’s a top LinkedIn voice in mentoring. She’s the author of The Success Factor and, with Andy Lopata, The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring.

Most of us recognize the value of building a better network, but we also know the time and dedication it takes. In this conversation, Ruth and I explore how we can use AI tools to do some of the administrative legwork so that we can spend more time on the real relationship-building.

Key Points

• McKinsey reports that since the pandemic, most people’s networks have shrunk or stalled.
• Consider the 90/9/1 rule: 90% of people lurk in online communities, 9% interact somewhat regularly, 1% post and lead the conversation.
• Use AI to enhance, not replace, your communications. Invite AI to do the administrative legwork (i.e. brainstorming, proofreading) so you focus on the human aspects.
• Ask AI to analyze speaker and attendee lists in advance at conferences in the context of your goals.
• Consider being the person that puts together an in-person dinner or gathering at a conference. Use AI to help you prep questions and discover the best people to invite.
• Ask AI to help complete your LinkedIn profile. An All-Star LinkedIn profile makes it substantially more likely that you’ll get surfaced to others.

Resources Mentioned

• Networking in the Age of AI by Ruth Gotian

Related Episodes

• How to Grow Your Professional Network, with Tom Henschel* (episode 279)
• How to Build a Network While Still Doing Everything Else, with Ruth Gotian* (episode 591)
• The Key Elements of a Powerful Personal Brand, with Goldie Chan* (episode 757)

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Martin Dubin is a clinical psychologist, serial entrepreneur, business coach, and adviser to C-suite executives and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. He has founded several companies, including a multimillion-dollar health-care company where he also served as CEO. He is the author of Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Whenever I ask leaders, “What’s getting in the way of you moving forward?” the most common answer I hear is, “Myself.” In this episode, Marty and I explore what’s likely holding you back and how you can take the first steps to get traction.

Key Points

• Many leaders don’t recognize the need for change and succumb to an identity blindspot.
• You don’t have to change your identity, but there’s a mismatch between role and identity, that’s a major problem.
• Shifting your identity is not changing who you are. Identities help us to sort through people and situations so we know who we are in relation to them.
• An identity that many have worked before can get in the way today. Common ones are: imposter, independent thinker, rule follower, unworthy, entitled, rebel, and peacemaker.
• Look back through your calendar over the past three months and determine how well your activities match up with the identity your role demands.
• Embody the new identity you are aiming to shift to, even if you’re not yet feeling it.

Resources Mentioned

• Blindspotting: How to See What’s Holding You Back as a Leader by Marty Dubin (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Six Questions Every Leader Should Ask Themselves, with Margaret Andrews (episode 750)
• How to See What Others Miss, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 758)
• Show Up Better, Faster, with Claude Silver (episode 762)

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Elizabeth Lotardo is a consultant, writer, and online instructor who helps organizations drive emotional engagement. Elizabeth writes for Harvard Business Review, is a Top Voice on LinkedIn, and the author of Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have. She’s also the author of the Harvard Business Review article, Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them.

Jumping in to solve problems feels like we’re doing important work. The issue is that leaders need to be enabling work – both for scale and to grow the skills of others. In this conversation, Elizabeth and I detailed how to get out of the trap of solving your team’s problems for them.

Key Points

• Jumping in to solve a problem feels good in the moment for both parties, but creates long-term obstacles.
• The other extreme, asking people to only come with solutions, often shuts down learning for both parties.
• Shifting a habit of solving your team’s problems will feel awkward at first – both for your team and you.
• Rather than solving the problem for them, help remove the obstacle.
• Support doesn’t just have to come from the manager. Often, looking at the situation together will help surface what kind of support would actually help.
• We often assume that people are coming to us for answers. Sometimes, they just need to be heard.

Five questions that will help your team step up:

1. What have you tried?
2. What–or who–is getting in the way of tackling this?
3. What support do you need?
4. What would you do if you were in my seat?
5. Is there anything else I should know?

Resources Mentioned

• Stop Solving Your Team’s Problems for Them by Elizabeth Lotardo
• Leading Yourself: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have by Elizabeth Lotardo (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Related Episodes

• The Way to Stop Rescuing People From Their Problems, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 284)
• Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)
• The Key Norm of a High-Performing Team, with Vanessa Druskat (episode 753)

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Colonel Eileen M. Collins, USAF (retired), earned a place in history as the first American woman to pilot, and later to command, a space mission. She flew on the space shuttle four times, twice as commander – including the 2005 “return to flight” mission after the tragic Columbia accident. She is the subject of the documentary movie Spacewoman and author of the book Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We all have times in our careers where all eyes are on us. In this conversation, Eileen and I explore the critical moments of her career and how she stayed grounded while soaring among the stars.

Key Points

• Until we are tested, we don’t know what we are capable of.
• Nerves creep in at times for all of us. When they do, it’s helpful to think about representing your role instead of representing yourself.
• When decisions become difficult, always come back to, “What’s the mission?”
• Train for the skill, not for the task.
• During high-stakes times, remember your family and personal life. They will help you stay grounded.

Resources Mentioned

• Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars: The Story of the First American Woman to Command a Space Mission by Eileen Collins (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Spacewoman documentary, featuring Eileen Collins

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)
• The Way to Handle Q&A, with Matt Abrahams (episode 681)
• How to Start the Top Job, with Scott Keller (episode 752)

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Claude Silver is on a mission to revolutionize leadership, talent, and workplace culture. She is Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX and partners with CEO Gary Vaynerchuk to drive their success. Claude has earned Campaign US’s Female Frontier Award, and AdWeek’s Changing the Game Award and she’s the author of Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all heard the advice to be ourselves at work. It’s easier said than done. In this conversation, Claude and I explore how we can actually move past some of the unhelpful self-talk so that we can show up better, faster.

Key Points

• We all have songs that play in our heads. When the song isn’t working, it’s time to change it.
• Labels are for soup cans, not people. Stop treating negative self-talk as gospel.
• Begin by identifying the label you’ve put on yourself that’s harming you. When it’s hard to see a harmful label, use times of either reflection or agitation to help surface it.
• Find the internal evidence for this label and record what confirms this belief and also what challenges it. If that’s hard, invite someone else (a partner, friend, or therapist) to help you see it more objectively.
• Evolve by creating a new mantra for who you are becoming. If it doesn’t seem doable today, ask yourself if you can envision it being true in the future.

Resources Mentioned

• Be Yourself at Work: The Groundbreaking Power of Showing Up, Standing Out, and Leading from the Heart by Claude Silver (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• How to Stand Up for Yourself, with Sunita Sah (episode 715)
• When It Feels Like You Don’t Belong, with Muriel Wilkins (episode 756)

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Steve Blank is an Adjunct Professor at Stanford and co-founder of the Gordian Knot Center for National Security Innovation. Credited with launching the Lean Startup movement and the curriculums for the National Science Foundation Innovation Corps and Hacking for Defense and Diplomacy, he’s changed how startups are built, how entrepreneurship is taught, how science is commercialized, and how companies and the government innovate. Steve is the author of The Four Steps to the Epiphany and The Startup Owner’s Manual and is the author of his recent article at steveblank.com: Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future.

Leaders may see the future coming, but we aren’t always incentivized to act on it. In this conversation, Steve and I discuss what we can learn from the common patterns of disruption so we don’t miss what’s next.

Key Points

• In the 1890s, there were approximately 4,000 carriage and wagon makers in the United States. Only one company made the transition to automobiles.
• In each of the three companies that survived, it was the founders, not hired CEOs, that drove the transition.
• Studebaker recognized that it wasn’t in the business of carriages; it was in the business of mobility.
• Clayton Christensen taught us that disruption begins with inferior products that incumbents don’t take seriously.
• The real problem isn’t that companies can’t see the future. It’s that they are structurally disincentivized to act on it.
• Parsing innovation theatre vs. innovation means paying attention to what’s actually shipping. If nothing is and you want to innovate, look elsewhere.
• Bubbles in the market are normal. Timing may be off, but that doesn’t mean disruption isn’t happening.

Resources Mentioned

• Blind to Disruption: The CEOs Who Missed the Future by Steve Blank

Related Episodes

• How to Start Seeing Around Corners, with Rita McGrath (episode 430)
• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476)

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Shannon Minifie is the CEO of Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that helps unleash the power of curiosity to create connected and engaged company cultures. They are the organization behind the bestselling book The Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier. Shannon and her team recently released a report along with the Harris Poll titled Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity increases engagement, trust, and productivity.

Of course, you’ve heard that being curious and coach-like will help in leadership. But sometimes the very thing we think we’re doing well is actually getting in the way. In this conversation, Shannon and I explore the kind of curiosity that leaders often miss.

Key Points

• 5-6 hours of the average workweek is lost to the fear of making mistakes.
• A strong majority of leaders say employees are expressing a desire for more feedback, and a majority also say that people are unable to receive hard feedback.
• Relationships are the core of these conflicting messages. Without a relationship of trust, helpful feedback often doesn’t land that way.
• Intellectual curiosity helps us learn what we don’t know. Relationship curiosity helps the other person learn what they don’t know.
• Ask yourself: what is my goal in asking this question?
• Rather than asking a question that starts with a “why,” consider asking a question that starts with a “what.”

The 7 Essential Questions:

1. What’s on your mind?
2. And what else?
3. What’s the real challenge here for you?
4. What do you want?
5. How can I help?
6. If you’re saying yes to this, what are you saying no to?
7. What was most useful for you?

Resources Mentioned

• Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity Increases Engagement, Trust, and Productivity.
• Interactive Learning Preview: Invest in the Power of Curiosity
• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• The Way to Be More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 458)

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Ruchika T. Malhotra is the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm that has worked with some of the world’s biggest organizations. She’s been recognized multiple times by Thinkers50 and co-wrote one of Harvard Business Review’s top 100 most-read articles in history: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. She is the author of Inclusion on Purpose, MIT Press’s top-selling book of 2022 and now her newest book, Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of people think about work as a competition for resources. But what if, by inviting others to the table, you created more for everyone? In this conversation, Ruchika and I explore the opportunity for all of us to uncompete.

Key Points

• Many of us are so socialized to compete that we don’t realize the benefits of collective collaboration.
• Reach out to someone who inspires you. Praising someone for something awesome about them, without an accompanying ask, is so rare.
• Display genuine curiosity. Don’t confuse “nice” small talk for depth. Ask bigger questions that get to the heart of who people are.
• As you build trust, talk numbers. In the professional context, real relationships of trust demand this kind of transparency.
• Take regular stock of relationships. Take people at their word and also watch how their actions line up – or don’t.
• Invite others to the table. The bigger your circle, the more you create for everybody.

Resources Mentioned

• Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success by Ruchika T. Malhotra (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• How to Create Inclusive Hiring Practices, with Ruchika Tulshyan (episode 589)
• Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Kirstin Ferguson has been recognized globally by Thinkers50 as one of the top 50 management thinkers in the world and is the recipient of the 2023 Distinguished Leadership Award. She was an officer in the Royal Australian Air Force, and then went on to lead an international consulting firm as CEO, before serving on the boards of major publicly listed, private, and non-profit organizations. She is the author of Women Kind, Head & Heart, and her newest book Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

If we stop to think about it, almost all of us recognize that we have blind spots. Given that reality, anything we can do that helps us see what others might miss will help us lead better. In this conversation, Kirsten and I explore the mindsets and practices that will help us uncover more of our blind spots.

Key Points

• Experts are better at knowing when they are right, but also less likely to show appropriate doubt when they could be wrong.
• There’s a time to be a seeker and a time to be a knower. Both are important in different situations, but leaders in many situations would benefit from more seeking.
• Blindspotting is about calibration, not hesitation.
• Accept your intellectual limitations. A key way to do this is saying these four words more: “I don’t know yet.”
• Disentangling your ego will help your blind spot better. Shift away from your pride a bit by separating yourself from your knowledge and expertise.
• Hunt down your biases. Admitting they exist is step one. Model vulnerability by talking about your past mistakes both with yourself and with others.

Resources Mentioned

• Blindspotting: How to See What Others Miss by Kirstin Ferguson (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Getting Better at Reading the Room, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 651)
• How to Find What’s Missing, with Jeff Wetzler (episode 732)
• How to Teach Your Expertise to Others, with Roger Kneebone (episode 743)

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Goldie Chan is the founder of Warm Robots, a social media strategy and creative agency, and she is herself a creative, keynote speaker, author, and cancer survivor. She was named the “Oprah of LinkedIn” by Huffington Post, and her creative video channel won LinkedIn Top Voice for Social Media. She is the author of Personal Branding for Introverts (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Many of us aspire to have a powerful personal brand, but it’s not always clear where to start. In this conversation, Goldie and I zero in on the five elements that matter most – and what you can do to get started.

Key Points

Five C’s of personal branding:

• Clarity: Surface it by determining three words you want to be associated with.
• Consistency: The internet is for introverts. Find the medium where you can show up often and that plays to your strengths.
• Competency: Rather than promoting yourself, promote the ideas and practices you stand for through your experience.
• Confidence: Ego is when you shout who you are to a room, and confidence is when you know who you are in a room.
• Community: Join in on conversations with people discussing what you care about. Find these communities or build your own.

Resources Mentioned

• Personal Branding for Introverts by Goldie Chan (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Four Critical Stories Leaders Need For Influence, with David Hutchens (episode 148)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)
• Your Reputation is Your Currency, with Maha Abouelenein (episode 703)

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Muriel Wilkins is the founder and CEO of Paravis Partners and a sought-after C-suite adviser and executive coach with a twenty-year track record of helping senior leaders take their performance to the next level. She is the coauthor of Own the Room and the host of the Harvard Business Review podcast Coaching Real Leaders. She’s just released her newest book, Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

You may have spent years aiming for the leadership role you now have. But now, once you’re in the job, it can be really disorienting to feel like you don’t belong. In this conversation, Muriel and I explore this reality that a lot of leaders face and what do when you run into it.

Key Points

• Feeling like you don’t belong is a normal and common reality at inflection points in your career.
• A vicious cycle can emerge: you’re waiting to be included while others are waiting for you to engage.
• While you can’t control others, you can break the part of the pattern you have control of.
• Define your value proposition. What gets missed when you don’t show up?
• Remind yourself of shared goals or values with the group. This prevents the small stuff from distracting you as much.
• Identify a few supportive people and build relationships with them.

Resources Mentioned

• Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential by Muriel Wilkins (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)
• The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

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David Hutchens works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations. He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations, including NASA, Paypal, Loreal Paris, Cisco, Walmart, Google, and FedEx. He’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses, Story Dash, and The Leadership Story Deck.

When organizational change is happening, leaders need to be intentional about lining up with culture, especially if it’s the time to shift that culture just a bit. We often do the logistics well, but we miss the power of both the human and emotional connections. In this episode, David and I discuss how story can help us make a meaningful shift.

Key Points

• The organizations that are being intentional about culture are also being intentional about story.
• Getting beyond the logistics of changes and leaning first into humanity and emotion help people frame cultural shifts.
• Leaders go first. Embodied stories from leaders are surprising, counter-cultural, and repeatable.
• Asking for stories is rarely sufficient. Instead, invite stories through intentional prompts like, “Tell me about a time you felt more engaged, alive, and happiest in your work here.”
• Received stories are the ones told by employees. Adding an emotion word to an invitation such as, “What’s a time you were proud?” often surfaces more genuine stories.

David is now a Coaching for Leaders expert partner. Connect with him to discover how he might support your organization in making a meaningful cultural shift via our partners page or email him directly at david@davidhutchens.com.

Resources Mentioned

• Circle of the 9 Muses: A Storytelling Field Guide for Innovators and Meaning Makers by David Hutchens (Amazon, Bookshop)*
• Story Dash: Find, Develop, and Activate Your Most Valuable Business Stories…In Just a Few Hours by David Hutchens (Amazon)*
• Leadership Story Deck by David Hutchens (Amazon)*

Related Episodes

• Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
• How to Start Finding Useful Stories, with David Hutchens (episode 593)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Monica Chartier is a group product manager in the technology industry. Her work has centered on supporting a global product experience, getting a million visitors a day. In addition to her e-commerce and technical experience, she indexes heavily on coach-like leadership with her team and also inside our community as one of our Coaching for Leaders Fellows.

In this conversation, Monica and I explore a need inside the Coaching for Leaders membership community and how we used the design thinking process to approach it. We outline the five key steps we followed and how you might do the same to address a problem inside your own organization.

Key Points

Five steps to solve a problem using design thinking:

1. Empathy: Start with Intentional Listening and Observation.
2. Define: Clarify the Real Problem to Solve.
3. Ideate: Co-Create Ideas and Form Testable Hypotheses.
4. Prototype: Start Small, Learn Fast.
5. Test, Learn, and Adapt: Make Iteration a Leadership Habit.

Access Monica’s detailed guide (PDF download)

Resources Mentioned

• Monica Chartier on LinkedIn

Related Episodes

• The Way to Make Struggles More Productive, with Sarah Stein Greenberg (episode 569)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
• How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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Vanessa Druskat is an associate professor at the Peter T. Paul College of Business and Economics at the University of New Hampshire. She advises leaders and teams at over a dozen Fortune 500 and Fortune Global 500 companies and wrote the best-selling Harvard Business Review article (with S. Wolff) on emotionally intelligent teams that has been chosen many times for inclusion in HBR’s most valued articles. She is the author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

It’s easy to assume that a good start for a great team is getting the smartest people together. That does help, but it’s not the critical factor in whether a team performs. In this conversation, Vanessa and I discuss why the word belonging makes such a difference.

Key Points

• Raw talent of the individual and their own interpersonal skills don’t predict team performance.
• Belonging is critical for team performance. Leaders often miss this because they already feel like they belong.
• Team members understanding each other is the first and most critical norm.
• Beginning meetings with check-ins or gallery walks helps people understand each other, even if it’s not discussed extensively.
• Inviting people to bring everyday objects to illustrate a more complex point helps make understanding accessible.
• The leader sets the tone, but it’s the interaction between team members that makes the difference.

Resources Mentioned

• The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Vanessa Druskat

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537)
• Team Collaboration Supports Growth Mindset, with Mary Murphy (episode 695)
• How to Help People Connect at Work, with Wes Adams (episode 735)

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Scott Keller is a senior partner at McKinsey, where he coleads the firm’s global CEO Excellence work within the Strategy & Corporate Finance Practice and serves as a global leader in the Organization Practice. He’s a New York Times bestselling author and trusted advisor to boards, CEOs, and senior leadership teams, with whom he guides multiyear, enterprise-wide transformations that shape the future of institutions. His colleagues and he are the authors of the new book, A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

One of the most critical phases of taking on the top job is what you do at the start. Whether it’s stepping into the role as president, general manager, executive director, owner, or CEO, starting well can make all the difference. In this conversation, Scott and I explore how to begin in the best way possible.

Key Points

• One-third to one-half of new CEOs are considered to be failing within eighteen months of taking the role. Many wish they’d handled the transition differently.
• New CEOs enter a reality distortion field of many bosses (the board), no peers, and ultimate accountability for everything. The best CEOs guard against this by not making it about them.
• Ask questions that aren’t about you, but the organization. Instead of, “How will I know if I’m successful?” ask, “How will we know if we’re winning?”
• Beginning with a listening tour is essential. People will tell you things when you’re new that they’ll never say two or three years later.
• Create a fact-based, one version of the truth. Once you know it, keep to a single narrative for everyone.
• Err towards complete candor in the toughest realities. Prepare intensely for moments of truth, when they need to happen.
• Set clear boundaries and stay extremely disciplined. Your narrative and first moves should guide how you frame these.

Resources Mentioned

• A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Carolyn Dewar, Scott Keller, Vikram Malhotra, and Kurt Strovink

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)

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Neil Ghosh is a seasoned executive whose expertise spans the nonprofit, government, philanthropic, and private sectors. With 30+ years of experience, he has successfully launched and scaled both nonprofit and for-profit ventures, building teams, business models, partnerships, and strategies to drive impact and support vulnerable populations in more than 50 countries. His book is Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

There are many differences in the world today, and those differences influence leaders just like everybody else. That’s why Neil Ghosh has this invitation for us: “Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.” In this conversation, Neil and I explore how we can lean in on great leadership through our common humanity.

Key Points

• In anyone we know, we can always find one positive attribute that we can learn from.
• Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.
• The Dalai Lama reminds us to offer compassion and kindness, regardless of whether the recipient is in need.
• Give back without expecting fanfare. Help people get what they want through peer mentoring.
• Use your platform to promote unity and to be an advocate for others.
• Befriend people who have different views. Join or start a book club that intentionally selects books from diverse viewpoints.

Resources Mentioned

• Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Neil Ghosh

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)
• Turning Down the Temperature on Outrage, with Karthik Ramanna (episode 711)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Margaret Andrews is a seasoned executive, academic leader, speaker, and instructor. Her course MYLO (Manage Yourself to Lead Others) has become the most popular professional development program at Harvard. She is the author of Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Virtually every book, course, and program on leadership begins with self-understanding. That’s no accident; it’s because managing ourselves helps us lead others more effectively. In this episode, Margaret and I explore the six key questions that will help you manage yourself better.

Key Points

• When people are asked to describe the attributes of their best bosses, 85% of the responses highlight interpersonal skills.
• Our differences are our features, not our flaws. Knowing yourself well helps you lead others better.

Six Questions for Self-Understanding:

1. Who, and whose thinking, has shaped you as an individual?
2. What situations and events have helped shape your perspective?
3. What does success look like for you?
4. What are your core values, and how have these values changed throughout your life?
5. To what extent are you aware of—and allow yourself to feel—your emotions?
6. What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

Resources Mentioned

• Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding by Margaret Andrews (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353)
• The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
• Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459)

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Mark Crowley is a pioneer in workplace leadership, a speaker, and the bestselling author of Lead from the Heart. He is the host of the Lead from the Heart podcast. His new book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When I talk with leaders, many of them tell me that it’s really hard to decide on how much recognition to give people vs. constructive or critical feedback. In this conversation, Mark and I highlight the ideal ratio to calibrate our communications so that we support people’s well-being while also helping them grow.

Key Points

• Despite the focus on employee engagement, actual engagement scores are the same or worse than a decade ago.
• Post-COVID, there’s a massive move towards employee well-being. This is good for both the organization and the employee.
• An ideal positivity ratio is 4:1 in many relationships. That’s four positive interactions for every constructive or critical interaction.
• We react more strongly to negative influence than positive influence, thus the need for a ratio favoring the positive.
• Positive interactions include optimism, enthusiasm, solutions orientation, encouragement, kindness, thoughtfulness, approachability, interest, and appreciation.
• Leaders still must make unpopular decisions, set expectations, and give critical feedback. Positive interactions are in addition to these, not instead of them.

Resources Mentioned

• The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Mark Crowley

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409)
• The Way to Notice People Better, with Zach Mercurio (episode 733)

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Since his days as a professional jazz trumpet player, Colin Fisher has been fascinated by group dynamics. Today, he is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London’s School of Management, researching the hidden processes of helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He is the author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop).

Most of us assume that the best thing we can do for our teams is to be a great coach as they’re working together. That absolutely helps, but the research says that only 10% of group effectiveness is what we do once the team is underway. In this conversation, Colin and I explore how to get a lot better at the other 90%.

Key Points

• The house always wins. If the structure isn’t right for the team to succeed, little else matters in the long run.
• Leaders tend to put a majority of their attention on coaching teams in progress instead of the more significant work at the start of structuring and launching teams.
• Work on fixing structural problems before you focus on fixing the process.
• 60% of group effectiveness is determined by structure, 30% by the launch, and 10% by expert coaching.
• Critical for structure is the team goal being clear, important, and challenging. Be sure to document it.
• Negotiate roles, tasks, and jobs to support structure. Determine early how to articulate progress and highlight small wins.
• Ask yourself if the group has the right people to achieve the objective. Deep diversity that supports the goal is essential.
• Surface discussions about norms at the start, especially related to communication and storage of information.
• At a team launch, articulate why everyone is there, discuss key norms, and schedule a midpoint to reflect and align.

Resources Mentioned

• The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop) by Colin Fisher

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
• How to Generate Quick Wins, with Andy Kaufman (episode 496)
• How to Increase Team Performance Through Clarity, with David Burkus (episode 657)

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Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab, and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World*.

We all get into a rut sometimes. Once we notice we’re in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it. In this conversation, Anne-Laure and I explore how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.

Key Points

• SMART goals assume we know exactly where we’re heading. Most of the time, that’s not clear.
• A tiny experiment focuses on outputs instead of outcomes.
• To build more comfort with uncertainty, find one small place to experiment.
• Our brain uses growth loops to constantly adjust our trajectory. We don’t go in circles; we grow in circles.
• Improving growth isn’t about knowledge or skill; it’s thinking about your thinking, questioning your responses, and knowing your mind.
• A simple, 5-minute tool is Plus Minus Next. It surfaces what’s working, what’s not, and your next steps.

Resources Mentioned

• Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
• How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
• How to Create Space, with Juliet Funt (episode 540)

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Lorraine K. Lee is passionate about helping ambitious professionals go from invisible to unforgettable in the modern workplace. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice in workplace communication and presence and spent over a decade as a founding editor at top tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, where she worked on core products including the LinkedIn Daily News module and LinkedIn Newsletters. She is the author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career.

Small talk. We all love to hate it – and we also know that most of us will end up in small talk with someone who’s got a lot of influence. It may be an executive or an external stakeholder. Either way, handling it well can open up doors. In this conversation, Lorraine and I detail how to make small talk go better.

Key Points

• Small talk is the starting point before a deeper relationship.
• Most opportunities for executive small talk are predictable. Preparation will help you speak well.
• Set the tone with positive energy. Rather than dominating the interaction or passively reacting to it, thread your conversations so each party shares equally.
• At the office, be ready with a sentence or two about who you work with and what you’re working on. Relationships and outcomes are more memorable than titles.
• At social events, share a hobby or interest and ask about theirs. Keep questions open-ended as you would with a friend.
• Have a topic ready to go for quick interactions. Sharing a thought about a book or podcast that relates to your organization is a useful resource to have at the ready.
• Review your go-to topics regularly so that you always have a relevant conversation topic.

Resources Mentioned

• Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career by Lorraine K. Lee
• Lorraine’s weekly newsletter
• Lorraine’s career tips on LinkedIn Learning

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Executive Presence with Your Elevator Speech, with Tom Henschel (episode 316)
• How to Talk to People Who Intimidate You, with Shandy Welch (episode 706)
• A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations, with Alison Wood Brooks (episode 717)

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Mort Sherman is the retired Senior Associate Executive Director of the American Association of School Administrators, known for his visionary leadership as a superintendent dedicated to elevating academic standards and promoting equitable education. Throughout his career, he championed initiatives that addressed achievement gaps and empowered communities to foster inclusive, impactful learning environments. He is the author, along with his daughter Sara Leila Sherman, of Resonant Minds: The Transformative Power of Music, One Note at a Time.

So many of us love music, and it’s often at the core of a lot of our personal lives, celebrations, and emotions. But we don’t often think about how we can leverage its power at work. In this conversation, Mort and I explore how music can help us set the tone for better leadership.

Key Points

• One way to nurture our teams and ourselves is a continual call for leaders, and music is an avenue we don’t often consider.
• Using music as mindful action, coupled with executive function skills, supports the habits of successful leadership.
• Start meetings with music or mindfulness exercises for collective focus, productive discussions, and creative outcomes.
• Create team playlists to build community. Combine playlists with meetings to help support trust and respect.
• Use music to reinforce a message or theme, tied to the needs of the moment.

Resources Mentioned

• Why Cooks Cook from The Bear

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Power of Leadership Through Hospitality, with Will Guidara (episode 688)
• How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)
• What Leaders Should Learn from Taylor Swift, with Kevin Evers (episode 739)

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Over an 18-year career at Google, Jenny Wood grew from entry-level to executive, most recently leading a large operations team that helped drive billions of revenue per year. In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own Your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history. Her work has since been featured in Harvard Business Review, Entrepreneur, and Forbes, and she’s now the author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It*.

Leadership is about serving others – and it’s also ensuring that we take care of ourselves along the way. Sometimes leaders over-index on helping their organizations and teams, to their own detriment. In this conversation, Jenny and I explore where being a little more selfish might actually be better for everyone.

Key Points

• Selfish redefined means having the courage to stand up for what you want.
• People want to join a winning team, even if they don’t say that out loud.
• Guilt is natural, but always caving to it is self-defeating.
• Don’t do work that’s not actually promotable. There’s no prize for an empty inbox.
• A belief like “I owe it to them,” may signal an over-commitment to the organization. They will not love you back.
• Appreciate truth when you get it, but don’t sign up for a burned-out boss.
• It’s inefficient to always be in the lead. Draft in another leader’s wake.

Resources Mentioned

• Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It* by Jenny Wood

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)
• The Ways Leadership Can Derail Us, with Bill George (episode 596)
• The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)

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Roger Kneebone directs the Imperial College Centre for Engagement and Simulation Science and the Royal College of Music–Imperial College Centre for Performance Science. He researches what experts from different fields can learn from one another, including a creative team of clinicians, computer scientists, musicians, magicians, potters, puppeteers, tailors, and fighter pilots. He is the author of Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery*.

Many leaders get into the roles they have because they are the experts in their work. But once you’re leading, the work is less about being the expert and more about teaching your expertise to others. In this conversation, Roger and I explore how to get better at doing this well.

Key Points

• Experts don’t often recognize that they are experts.
• A characteristic of many experts is a dissatisfaction with where they are and an awareness that they could do better.
• Experts should notice what’s missing and what would be most helpful to the less experienced person.
• Effective teachers zero in on one thing at a time, even if they notice many areas for improvement.
• Passing along expertise is not just the skills themselves but the perspective of why each skill matters.
• Land in the zone of proximal development. The skill should neither be too easy nor too difficult.

Resources Mentioned

• Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery* by Roger Kneebone

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Help People Learn Through Powerful Teaching, with Pooja Agarwal (episode 421)
• The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)
• How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

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Sabina Nawaz is an executive coach who advises C-level executives and teams at Fortune 500 corporations, government agencies, nonprofits, and academic institutions. During her 14-year tenure at Microsoft, she went from managing software development teams to leading the company’s executive development and succession planning efforts for over 11,000 managers and nearly a thousand executives, advising Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer directly. She’s the author of You’re the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)*.

Every leader I know intends to be authentic. Unfortunately, we sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the critical work of calibrating our actions. In this conversation, Sabina and I discuss how to avoid that trap so we can show up more genuinely for others.

Key Points

• “Yeah, but…” signals justification and holds us back from what we most need to learn.
• Your success comes despite unhelpful traits, not because of them.
• Pure authenticity is a complete fallacy. Authenticity is not singular.
• We sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the important work of calibrating our actions.
• Don’t let the smokescreen of past “authenticity” get in the way of growth.
• Authenticity is not static. Reading your old past social media posts will remind you of this.
• When shifting, start with small experiments to nudge you in a new direction.

Language that may be warning signs of the authenticity trap:

• “That’s just how I am.”
• “I’m not the kind of person who…”
• “I’m not being true to myself if…”
• “That’s the way I’ve always done things, and it’s worked for me.”

Resources Mentioned

• You’re the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)* by Sabina Nawaz

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

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Minda Harts is a bestselling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker who is redefining what it means to build trust in the workplace. As the bestselling author of The Memo, Right Within, and You Are More Than Magic, Minda has empowered thousands to be their own best advocates and navigate workplace challenges with confidence. She has just released her newest book, Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace.

Sometimes we assume that we’re helping by shielding people from difficult news. But as we all know, virtually everyone wants transparency from leaders. In this conversation, Minda shows us how to get better at it.

Key Points

• You’re not helping by shielding people from difficult conversations.
• Most everyone assumes baseline behaviors of employees. Employees expect reciprocity through transparency.
• We often think about transparency with information that’s known. Just as important is clarity about what’s not known.
• Even when you can’t share news, you can put time and resources into what will help people handle a new reality when it arrives.
• Transparency provides clear, honest, and timely information.
• Promote transparency in roles. A job description is a helpful starting point for this.
• Good intentions do not mean good impact. When changes happen, communicate them as quickly as practical.

Resources Mentioned

• Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace* by Minda Harts

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Path Towards Trusting Relationships, with Edgar Schein and Peter Schein (episode 539)
• How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
• Preparing for a Conversation with Someone You Don’t Trust, with Charles Feltman (episode 708)

Expert Partner

Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.

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Michael Bungay Stanier is best known for The Coaching Habit, the best-selling coaching book of the century and recognized as a classic. He was a Rhodes Scholar, and was recently awarded the coaching prize by Thinkers50. He’s now the host of the new Change Signal podcast.

If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy. In this conversation, Michael Bungay Stanier returns to show us where to start, the key mindsets to have, and the first steps for getting traction.

Key Points

• If you’re doing change right, it’s going to be messy.
• Before you remove a fence, figure out why it’s there.
• Take inspiration from Emily Dickinson: “Tell all the truth but tell it slant.”
• Beware giving lip service to the emotional realities of change and then moving forward without really addressing them.
• Strategy is a living conversation. Run experiments. Fire bullets before cannonballs.
• Motivation is a critical factor in change. Better to be less efficient and have people with you than to force compliance with a “perfect” plan.

Emily Dickinson:

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth’s superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind —

Resources Mentioned

• Change Signal podcast hosted by Michael Bungay Stanier
• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier

Related Episodes

• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

Expert Partner

Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.

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Kevin Evers is a Senior Editor at Harvard Business Review. Passionate about shaping groundbreaking research and amplifying pioneering ideas, he has edited bestselling and award-winning books on high performance, creativity, innovation, digital disruption, marketing, and strategy. He is the author of There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift*.

You may love her music. You may not. You may think she’s a business genius…or perhaps no. But one thing is for sure, you cannot ignore Taylor Swift. In this conversation, Kevin and I explore Swift’s strategic approach and what every leader can learn from her success.

Key Points

• Swift knows exactly her “job to be done” and delivers on it consistently.
• Swift treats her fans’ emotions and experiences with respect, and they respond in kind.
• Andy Grove famously said that only the paranoid survive. It’s one of many traits that helps Swift stay successful.
• Swift’s transition to pop was promotion-focused rather than prevention-focused. She led the story of her transformation.
• Not only is Swift clear on her vision, but she regularly reflects on the difficult steps to get there.
• Swift is a remarkable example of antifragility. Not only does she withstand stress and shocks, but they make her stronger.

Resources Mentioned

• There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift* by Kevin Evers

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)
• The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)
• How to Keep Improving, with Maurice Ashley (episode 697)

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Faisal Hoque is an award-winning entrepreneur and innovator and founder of SHADOKA and NextChapter. He is a three-time Wall Street Journal bestselling author of the books: Reinvent, Everything Connects, and Lift. He has just released his newest book: Transcend: Unlocking Humanity in the Age of AI*.

The most compelling use cases for AI aren’t people OR AI – it’s both. Leaders who learn how to partner with AI will almost certainly open doors that many others don’t. In this episode, Faisal and I explore (a few steps on) how to get started.

Key Points

• While we think about working with AI as very different than working with people, similar mindsets and skill sets help us with both.
• Partnering well with AI means asking better questions and being genuinely interested in the answers.
• Experts are limited by their perspective. Beginners are open to possibilities. We should approach AI with a beginner’s mindset.
• Using AI well means getting more comfortable with uncertainty. We need to own our ignorance.
• Playful discovery helps with our intrinsic motivation to keep going. When using AI, find the fun that keeps you engaged.
• This technology will do the logical work far better than any human. To partner well, work to increase your emotional intelligence.

Resources Mentioned

• Transcend: Unlocking Humanity in the Age of AI by Faisal Hoque

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
• Principles for Using AI at Work, with Ethan Mollick (episode 674)
• Becoming an AI-Savvy Leader, with David De Cremer (episode 710)

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Alice Ferris is the Founding Partner of GoalBusters, a firm working to help small and mighty fundraising teams achieve big impact by planning practical strategies, teaching essential fundraising skills, and doing the hands-on work to turn vision into reality. She has more than 30 years of professional fundraising experience, specializing in strategic and development planning, campaign readiness and development program assessments, board and organizational training, executive leadership coaching, individual giving, and grant proposal evaluation. She’s also a graduate of the Coaching for Leaders Academy.

Fundraising is not a word that sparks joy for most leaders. In fact, many people who do fundraising never planned to have that be part of their career. And yet, almost every leader has an aspect of fundraising in their professional or personal lives. In this conversation, Alice and I explore how to get better at it.

Key Points

• Almost every leader is involved with fundraising in some capacity, either personally or professionally.
• It’s a myth that fundraising is just asking for money. Most fundraising activities happen outside of the ask.
• Consider fundraising goals for must-do activities, maintaining the current state, and aspirational growth.
• Most people share health issues with their immediate family and close friends. When your organization is facing headwinds, tell your donors how they can help.
• Dedicated attention to fundraising is key for both prioritization and relationship continuity.
• Connectors, experts, and closers are all essential roles in the fundraising process. Play to the strengths of both staff and volunteers to fill these roles well.

Resources Mentioned

• Connect with Alice on LinkedIn
• GoalBusters

Related Episodes

• How to Lead Top-Line Growth, with Tim Sanders (episode 299)
• How an Executive Aligns with a Board, with Joan Garry (episode 662)
• The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)

Expert Partner

Beginning a career transition? Feeling stagnant in your current role? Scott Barlow and his team may be able to help as official partners of Coaching for Leaders. To discover more about how his team can support you, get in touch on our expert partners page.

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Matt Dixon is Founding Partner of DCM Insights, a global training and advisory firm, and a leading expert in business development and client experience. His first book The Challenger Sale was a #1 Amazon and Wall Street Journal bestseller, and translated in a dozen languages. His newest book with colleagues Rory Channer, Karen Freeman, and Ted McKenna is The Activator Advantage: What Today’s Rainmakers Do Differently*.

At lot of us know the traits of the kind of person who’s successful at attracting new business. What many of us don’t know, is that what’s working today is actually different than what we traditionally think. In this conversation, Matt and I a take a detailed look at the professionals who are landing the most new business – and what they’re doing that works.

Key Points

• The loyalty that once existed between professionals and their clients has changed substantially in recent years.
• A type of professional called an activator represents the highest performance in business development.
• Activators assume their best clients will leave at some point and are consistently working to build a pipeline of opportunities.
• Many professionals tend to protect client relationships. In contrast, activators actively bring colleagues into these relationships.
• Activators don’t wait for inquiries. They make opportunities happen by building relationships before paid work begins.
• Activators go way past birthdays and factual knowledge about others. They discover what’s important to their clients as individuals.
• Activators go way past “as is” content and work hard to thoughtfully connect it to a prospect or client’s situation.

Resources Mentioned

• The Activator Advantage: What Today’s Rainmakers Do Differently* by Matt Dixon, Rory Channer, Karen Freeman, and Ted McKenna

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Surprising Truth About Influencing Others, with Daniel Pink (episode 84)
• How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
• The Way to Earn Attention, with Raja Rajamannar (episode 521)

Expert Partner

Finding it hard to make an impression in a noisy marketplace? Many listeners have reached out to David Hutchens to help their organizations get traction through the power of story. If you’re planning an offsite or training to get better, get in touch with us to start the conversation with David or any of our other expert partners.

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Wes Adams is the CEO of SV Consulting Group, a firm partnering with Fortune 500s and scaling companies to develop high-impact leaders and support high-performing teams. He is also a positive psychology researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies the leadership practices and organizational structures that help employees thrive. He’s the author, along with Tamara Myles, of Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee*.

A generation ago, work was just work for a lot of folks. Today, we expect more out of our careers than past generations ever did. That means leaders need to be better at helping people find meaning at work. In this conversation, Wes and I discuss how leaders can do better at being catalysts for connection.

Key Points

• We expect so much more from work than we did a generation ago. Work is increasingly a place where people seek belonging, purpose, and meaning.
• Supporting community in the workplace is a combination of building trust and designing shared experiences.
• Just like a balanced investment portfolio, community is a combination of diverse avenues that build a strong foundation.
• Consider a simple structure for synchronized breaks to help people connect more intentionally during work.
• Invite team members to share a story of them at their best or reflect on a photo/story that has meaning for them at the start of team meetings.
• When responding to a joy that a colleague shares, ask a follow-up question that engages and elevates.
• Higher difficulty (yet strongly meaningful) activities include shared volunteer work and funding or support for community activities.
• By occasionally sharing personal plans, stories, reading lists, or other activities, the leader sets the tone for others feeling safe to connect in this way.

Resources Mentioned

• Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee* by Wes Adams and Tamara Myles

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)
• The Beliefs of Inspirational Leaders, with Stephen M. R. Covey (episode 707)
• The Way to Notice People Better, with Zach Mercurio (episode 733)

Expert Partner

Are you a talent development or human resources leader seeking a coach for an internal client? Coaching for Leaders has partnered with some of the top coaches in the world, including a number of past podcast guests. Help us make an introduction by visiting our Expert Partners Page and telling us what you’re seeking in a coach.

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Judith Joseph is a Columbia-trained psychiatrist and the founder of and chief investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, New York City’s premier clinical research site. She’s also a clinical assistant professor in child and adolescent psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center in Manhattan, and chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. She is the author of High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy*.

When we think about successful leaders, we often admire those who are loving towards others, can tolerate painful times, and know how to delay gratification. Those are all such important traits – and when we overindex on them, can become counter-productive. In this conversation, Judith and I explore when it’s no longer working and how to find the joy again.

Key Points

• Many people who are experiencing high-functioning depression don’t realize it.
• High-functioning depression is often triggered by trauma. That can be major trauma, but it can also be more common forms of trauma like divorce, workplace conflict, legal issues, and many more.
• Anhedonia is one of the most common ways high-functioning depression reveals itself. It looks like not seeking out joyful activities and also not experiencing joy in activities that used to bring joy.
• Masochism is the other common way high-functioning depression shows up. It manifests as a pattern of self-defeating, people-pleasing behavior.
• The “superpowers” that come with high-functioning depression are viewed by others and society as strengths. However, over-indexing on being loving, tolerating pain, and delayed gratification are counter-productive over time.
• Validation is a starting point for healing. Each person is unique and sometimes it’s helpful to begin with movies or other creative works that help you recognize yourself.

Resources Mentioned

• High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy* by Judith Joseph

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438)
• The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 608)
• Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)

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Zach Mercurio is an author, researcher, and speaker specializing in purposeful leadership, mattering, meaningful work, and positive organizational psychology. He teaches a course with past guest Simon Sinek on how leaders can show everyone how they matter. He is the author of The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance*.

When you ask people what mattered in their careers, few cite the bonus, or the stock options, or the employee of the month award. What they do talk about are the times they were remembered, supported, thanked, and seen. In this conversation, Zach and I discuss how to do that better.

Key Points

• When people are asked about when they mattered, they recall small moments of being remembered, helped, thanked, or seen.
• The behavior of a leader accounts for half of the increased feelings of mattering and meaningfulness at work.
• Rather than identifying with a person’s behavior, identify first with the person.
• Look for the positive traits in a person or identify something that you love.
• Music is the space between the notes. In our informal interactions, we have the choice to turn against, turn away, or turn towards.
• Leaders who notice people well consistently follow three steps: observe, note, and share.

Resources Mentioned

• The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance* by Zach Mercurio

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Start With Why, with Simon Sinek (episode 223)
• How to Shift Behavior for Better Results, with Mitch Warner (episode 690)
• How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

Expert Partner

Are you noticing people communicating in such a way that feels boring or robotic to stakeholders – or perhaps just losing them in the data? David Hutchens, one of our expert partners, helps leaders and organizations develop a more human, engaging voice through the power of storytelling.

To discover more about how his work may support your organization, get in touch on our expert partners page.

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Jeff Wetzler is co-Founder of Transcend, a nationally recognized innovation organization, and an expert in learning and human potential. His experience spans 25+ years in business and education, as a management consultant to top corporations, a learning facilitator for leaders, and as Chief Learning Officer at Teach For America. He’s the author of Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life*.

We place our organizations at risk when we miss stuff. Often, the things we miss aren’t what we don’t know. Instead, they are the assumptions we don’t even question. In this conversation, Jeff and I explore the practices that work to find what’s missing.

Key Points

Hidden feedback cues:

• Repeated questions or suggestions about seemingly small details.
• Increased involvement in tactical decisions.
• Unexpected decreases in engagement.

Benefits of curiosity:

1. When We’re Curious About People, They Like Us More
2. Curiosity begets curiosity.
3. Curiosity creates empathy.
4. Curiosity makes us more resilient.

Curiosity sparks:

• What might I be missing?
• How else might someone interpret the situation?
• How might I be impacting them?
• What can I learn from this person?

Resources Mentioned

• Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life* by Jeff Wetzler
• Ask Approach
• How to Recognize “Hidden Feedback” (Harvard Business Review) by Jeff Wetzler
• The Curiosity Coach In Your Pocket (Psychology Today) by Jeff Wetzler

Related Episodes

• How to Inspire More Curiosity, with Shannon Minifie (episode 520)
• How to Help Others Be Seen and Heard, with Scott Shigeoka (episode 654)
• Make it Easier to Discuss Hard Things, with Jeff Wetzler (episode 679)

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Scott Anthony Barlow is CEO of Happen To Your Career and host of the Happen to Your Career podcast. His team and him are focused on helping people find the work they love. He’s also the author of the book, Happen to Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work*.

You’ve been laid off, or someone close to you is navigating that reality right now. A lot of the first things we think to do after a layoff are wrong. In this episode, Scott and I explore what to avoid…and more importantly, where to begin anew.

Key Points

• Most people underestimate the time it takes to make a transition to the next, right position.
• Submitting tons of applications, networking everywhere, and telling everyone that you’re looking feels productive, but is often either incomplete or a waste of time.
• Give yourself the space to grieve. Spend time with the people who care about you.
• This didn’t happen to you, it happened for you. Whether objectively true or not, this mindset will help you be intentional about next actions.
• Hyperfocus your targeting by creating a master resume and also considering backdoors to opportunities.
• Decide when to hire help by using math – how much will expertise help speed up the process and/or help you land a higher salary?

Resources Mentioned

• Happen to Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work* by Scott Anthony Barlow

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Craft a Career to Fit Your Strengths, with Scott Anthony Barlow (episode 424)
• How to Nail a Job Transition, with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy (episode 555)
• How to Respond When You Get Triggered, with Sally Helgesen (episode 620)

Expert Partner

In this midst of a layoff? Feeling stagnant in your current role? Scott Barlow and his team may be able to help as official partners of Coaching for Leaders. To discover more about how his team can support you, get in touch on our expert partners page.

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Tom Henschel of Essential Communications supports senior leaders and executive teams. An internationally recognized expert in the field of workplace communications and self-presentation, he has helped thousands of leaders achieve excellence through his work as an executive coach and his top-rated podcast, The Look & Sound of Leadership.

Have you been told you should take more initiative? Or, perhaps you’ve been telling that to someone else? Either way, this conversation with Tom Henschel will outline three key steps to help you get started.

Key Points

Three steps to taking more initiative:

1. Think and talk about your work. Ideas come through conversation.
2. Execute on your idea. Feel the fear and do it anyway.
3. Communicate what you’ve done.

• Initiative is often in the eye of the beholder.
• Imagine a scale that goes from bold to cautious. There’s probably room for you to be at least 5% bolder.
• Feeling like you are waiting on others may be an indicator to take initiative.
• To calibrate where you land, ask yourself: “What’s my typical pattern?”
• In correspondence, consider asking fewer questions and making more statements.
• Place yourself in situations where you’ll need to show initiative.

Resources Mentioned

• The Look & Sound of Leadership podcast by Tom Henschel
• Feel the Fear…and Do It Anyway* by Susan Jeffers

Related Episodes

• Leadership vs. Management (The Look & Sound of Leadership, episode 166)
• 5 Strategies for Dealing with Narcissists (The Look & Sound of Leadership, episode 239)
• How to Answer “Tell Us About Yourself” (The Look & Sound of Leadership, episode 250)
• How to Talk So People Understand You (The Look & Sound of Leadership, episode 254)

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Jon Fogel is a husband, a father of four, and a parenting educator. His goal is to teach how to parent more effectively, with less stress and more success by combining modern neuroscience, developmental psychology, counseling, and positive, gentle parenting wisdom. He is the author of Punishment-­Free Parenting: The Brain-Based Way to Raise Kids Without Raising Your Voice*.

Most of us aspire to lead well in every area of our lives, not just in the workplace. A key place for leadership with many of us is with our kids and the other young people in our lives. In this conversation, Jon and I discuss how to raise kids without raising your voice.

Key Points

• Consequences and punishment are not the same thing, even if the words are used interchangeably.
• Our kids want us to like them. They are not giving you a hard time; they’re having a hard time.
• Punishment doesn’t “teach kids a lesson.” More often, it crowds out higher-level thinking, and children are unable to remember what they were being punished for.
• Rather than imposing retribution, help children surface the natural and logistical consequences of their behaviors.
• Get curious, not furious. Often, there’s a perfectly rational reason that children are acting the way they are.
• Children are great imitators. So give them something great to imitate.

Resources Mentioned

• Punishment-­Free Parenting: The Brain-Based Way to Raise Kids Without Raising Your Voice* by Jon Fogel
• Jon Fogel on Instagram

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310)
• The Way Into Better Conversations About Wealth, with Kristin Keffeler (episode 606)
• Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)

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Qasim Ijaz is the director of cybersecurity at a leading healthcare organization, overseeing detection, incident response, vulnerability management, purple teaming, and cybersecurity engineering. With a strong background in offensive security and risk management, he has helped organizations strengthen their defenses against evolving threats. He is also a dedicated educator, mentoring professionals and sharing his expertise at conferences such as BSides and Black Hat.

You don’t need to go far in the news these days to find out that another organization was hacked. Data breeches are a nightmare scenario for both leaders and the people they support. In this episode, Qasim and I explore what your team and you can do to be a bit more prepared.

Key Points

• Use multi-factor authentication, passphrases, and a password manager.
• Freeze your personal credit reports. Do this for free directly with Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion.
• Leaders in bigger roles (executives, CEOs, board members) are larger targets for hackers due to their access and also their ability to occasionally side-step organizational guidelines.
• It’s the non-technical pieces of a cyber response that organizations are least prepared for.
• Conduct incident response and disaster recovery tabletop exercises to uncover vulnerabilities before an attack.
• Regardless of organizational policy, employees will use AI. The best prevention assumes the inevitability of human behavior and works with it to improve systems.

Resources Mentioned

• Recommended password managers: 1Password, Apple password app, Proton Pass
• Critical Security Controls by the Center for Internet Security
• Resources for Small and Medium Businesses by the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency
• 2024 Data Breach Investigations Report by Verizon Business

Related Episodes

• Dumb Things Smart People Do With Money, with Jill Schlesinger (episode 396)
• Where to Start When Inheriting a Team in Crisis, with Lynn Perry Wooten (episode 603)
• How to Use AI to Think Better, with José Antonio Bowen (episode 689)

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Andrew Brodsky is an award-winning professor, management consultant, and virtual communications expert at the McCombs School of Business at The University of Texas at Austin. He is an expert in workplace technology, communication, and productivity, and serves as the CEO of Ping Group. He is the author of Ping: The Secrets of Successful Virtual Communication*.

We’ve all heard the well intended advice that having interactions in person is always best. And that being as close to perfect as possible is ideal. Turns out, not always. In this conversation, Andrew and I explore how adapting to the context of tough situations can help you show up in a way that’s helpful for the other party and for you.

Key Points

• In virtual interactions, what feels authentic to you may not seem authentic to the person you’re interacting with.
• While video is best for being present, it may not be best when your underlying emotions could leak into a situation.
• Surface acting helps us all land with the other party more authentically. Audio only can help this land better.
• If using a less rich medium to communicate (i.e. email instead of a conversation) it’s helpful to explain why you made that choice.
• People who appear perfectly competent may not be as likable. Consider surfacing blunders that aren’t central to the core expertise of your work.
• We often default to the medium that works best for us. Consider what will land best with the other party.

Resources Mentioned

• Ping: The Secrets of Successful Virtual Communication* by Andrew Brodsky

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
• How to Make a Better Impression on Camera, with Mark Bowden (episode 643)
• How to Grow From Feedback, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 713)

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Paul Akers is the founder and president of FastCap, a product development company specializing in woodworking tools and hardware for the professional builder. Through a series of twists and turns he discovered Lean and the Toyota Production System (TPS) which was instrumental in propelling FastCap as an example of Lean manufacturing and culture, now followed by thousands of companies around the world. He is the author of 2 Second Lean: How to Grow People and Build a Fun Lean Culture at Work & at Home*.

We often add more in order to make a system better. The opposite tactic is often more useful: making things simpler. In this conversation, Paul and I explore how to make worker better by starting small.

Key Points

• Your pride will blind you to what you most need to learn.
• Begin by addressing the things that bug you. Lean is about making things simpler.
• Instead of batching, consider one-piece flow. This helps you improve as you go.
• Set the standard at 2 seconds to try something new. Anybody can achieve that.
• Start in the bathroom. Showing respect in the place everybody visits sets a standard for the rest of the organization.
• To make something stick, (1) set the expectation, (2) inspect the expectation, (3) reinforce the expectation.

Resources Mentioned

• 2 Second Lean: How to Grow People and Build a Fun Lean Culture at Work & at Home* by Paul Akers
• Example of 2 second lean in practice

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How To Create Joy At Work, with Richard Sheridan (episode 122)
• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Change the Way You Think, with Ari Weinzweig (episode 592)

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Joel Pérez is an executive and leadership coach, speaker, and consultant who is passionate about helping leaders and organizations achieve their goals and develop a posture of cultural humility. He has over twenty years of experience in higher education, serving in various key leadership roles. He is the author of Dear White Leader: How to Achieve Organizational Excellence through Cultural Humility*.

We could all get a bit better at bringing a dose of humility into our work. Inside organizations, cultural humility starts with how leaders show up each day. In this episode, Joel and I examine three shifts that will help us better empower others.

Key Points

• While humility starts with an individual, it must move beyond them to improve the organization.
• Maintain high standards while avoiding perfectionism by discussing how mistakes get handled in advance.
• To prevent a sense of urgency from rushing a bad decision, consider who’s missing from the conversation.
• Listen, ask curious questions, and say thank you when receiving criticism.
• Criticism doesn’t need to be addressed in the moment. Consider reflection, other data points, and responding more in a future interaction.

Resources Mentioned

• Dear White Leader: How to Achieve Organizational Excellence through Cultural Humility* by Joel Pérez
• Dear White Leader website

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Starting Point for Inclusive Leadership, with Susan MacKenty Brady (episode 584)
• How to Use Power Responsibly, with Vanessa Bohns (episode 551)
• How to Discover What People Want, with Tiziana Casciaro (episode 565)

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Donna Hicks is an Associate at the Weatherhead Center for International Affairs at Harvard University and the former Deputy Director of the Program on International Conflict Analysis and Resolution (PICAR). She has facilitated dialogues in numerous unofficial diplomatic efforts and was a consultant to the BBC in Northern Ireland, where she co-facilitated a television series, Facing the Truth, with Archbishop Desmond Tutu. She is the author of Dignity: Its Essential Role in Resolving Conflict and Leading with Dignity: How to Create a Culture That Brings Out the Best in People*.

Everyone wants to be treated in a way that shows they matter. We may differ in status, but we are all equal in dignity. In this episode, Donna and I explore how appreciating dignity can help us bring out the best in people.

Key Points

• Everyone wants to be treated in a way that shows they matter.
• Dignity is different from respect. Everyone has dignity, but not everyone deserves respect.
• A major misconception of dignity is that we receive our worth from external sources.
• We’re at our best when connected to our own dignity, connected to the dignity of others, and connected to the dignity of something bigger.
• Start with vulnerability and empathy. These open the doors to connecting with your own dignity and the dignity of others.
• We may differ in status, but we are all equal in dignity.

Resources Mentioned

• Dignity: It’s Essential Role in Resolving Conflict* by Donna Hicks
• Leading with Dignity: How to Create a Culture That Brings Out the Best in People* by Donna Hicks

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)
• Help People Show Up as Themselves, with Frederic Laloux (episode 580)

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Melody Wilding is an executive and leadership coach for smart, sensitive high-achievers who are tired of getting in their own way. She teaches human behavior at Hunter College and is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Business Insider, who named her one of the “most innovative coaches.” She is the author of Managing Up: How to Get What You Need from the People in Charge*.

Good work speaks for itself. It’s a lie many of us have wished was true, but found that there’s actually much more work involved. In this conversation, Melody and I discuss what really helps in creating more visibility.

Key Points

• Good work does not speak for itself.
• Our fear of appearing self-promotional can hinder the visibility conversations that our leaders and team need from us.
• A story will be told about your work. By having stories that you are ready to tell, you get to shape the narrative.
• Instead of listing what you’ve done, highlight what you want to be known for.
• Give visibility to work that is important to your team, puts you in contact with stakeholders, and impacts that bottom line.
• Always have a 3-step pocket update at the ready. Share a (1) project, (2) detail, and (3) result.
• Capitalize on casual conversation. Say yes to the right invitations and be the person that keeps the relationship going.

Resources Mentioned

• Managing Up: How to Get What You Need from the People in Charge* by Melody Wilding

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Get Noticed Without Selling Out, with Laura Huang (episode 480)
• How to Start Finding Useful Stories, with David Hutchens (episode 593)
• Getting Better at Internal Communication, with Roy Schwartz (episode 687)

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Rebecca Homkes is a high-growth strategy specialist and CEO and executive advisor. She is a Lecturer at the London Business School, Faculty at Duke Corporate Executive Education, and Advisor and Faculty at the Boston Consulting Group focused on AI and Climate and Sustainability. She is the author of Survive, Reset, Thrive: Leading Breakthrough Growth Strategy in Volatile Times*.

Uncertainty seems to be more and more the norm. Sometimes, that leads an organization into survival mode. If that’s where you are now, this conversation is the roadmap for what to do next.

Key Points

• We default to the assumption that uncertainty is unequivocally bad.
• Executives are often overconfident in their ability to predict the future and get tied into patterns that reward following the plan.
• We tend to adopt the first explanation we hear that makes sense instead of examining our beliefs.
• Make good decisions even when you cannot make good predictions.
• Avoid attempting to predict the end state. Stop planning and start preparing.
• People are often most honest when in survival mode, opening up opportunity for learning and growth.
• Ask these two questions: What could break us? What could make us?

Resources Mentioned

• Survive, Reset, Thrive: Leading Breakthrough Growth Strategy in Volatile Times* by Rebecca Homkes

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)
• Help Your Team Embrace Growth Mindset, with Eduardo Briceño (episode 644)
• How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

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Jess Britt is an experienced executive and nonprofit board chair. Today as a coach and consultant, she uses a facilitative leadership approach to empower leaders and teams to build collaborative, high-performing, data-driven workplace cultures. She’s an alum of our Academy and for the past two years, has taken a leadership role inside our community as a Coaching for Leaders fellow, providing coaching and facilitation to our members.

While some leaders love to hate meetings, a well-designed meeting can open huge opportunities to connect, engage, and build culture on a team. In this conversation, Jess and I zero in on simple tactics that will help you engage attendees and lead meetings that people actually enjoy. We explore how objectives, facilitation tactics, and adult learning principles can help and invite you to start with one.

Key Points

• Identifying both shared and non-shared objectives helps you design meetings, informs how you show up, makes meetings less frustrating, and helps you pivot.
• Invite discussion and engagement at the start with a warm-up question. If possible, connect the question to an objective of the meeting.
• Check-out questions are a quick indicator of what worked and what didn’t. Use emojis, voting, or a quick question to assess, and follow up if something didn’t land.
• Adults learn best by drawing on past experiences and taking action. Bring in role plays, think-pair-share, and gallery walks to help engage people.
• Simple debrief questions will open up insights. Consider prompts like: “What came out of this?” “What did you hear?” and “I heard you discussing an idea. Tell us more.”

Reach out to Jess at jess@jessbritt.com and tell her one thing you tried from this conversation and what happened. She’ll respond by sharing her full guide of meeting facilitation ideas we weren’t able to entirely cover in this episode.

Resources Mentioned

• Jess Britt’s website
• Coaching for Leaders Academy

Related Episodes

• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)
• Bringing Your Strengths to a Big Job, with General CQ Brown, Jr. (episode 691)

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Margie Warrell is a best-selling author, keynote speaker, leadership coach, and Forbes columnist. With twenty-five years of experience living and working around the world, she has dedicated her life to helping others overcome fear and unlock their potential. She is the author of The Courage Gap: 5 Steps to Braver Action*.

Whether it’s painting a vision of the future or giving feedback on something that didn’t work yesterday, courage is a necessity for leaders. In this episode, Margie and I highlight the way towards just a bit more of it.

Key Points

• Leaders may rise in the ranks because of what they do, but cap themselves because of who they are.
• The smarter we are, the more our fears work in the background.
• Beware discounting the future. Fear causes us to value the future less than the present.
• Reel in fearcasting worst-case scenarios. These can prevent us from seeing the benefits of action.
• Stop rationalizing inaction and excess caution. An excuse is always there to prevent you from doing what’s right and true.
• Avoid betraying yourself to secure status with others.

Resources Mentioned

• The Courage Gap: 5 Steps to Braver Action* by Margie Warrell

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Protect Your Confidence, with Nate Zinsser (episode 573)
• How to Help People Engage in Growth, with Whitney Johnson (episode 576)
• How to Grow From Feedback, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 713)

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Ethan Kross is the author of the national bestseller Chatter and one of the world’s leading experts on emotion regulation. An award-winning professor in the University of Michigan’s top-ranked Psychology Department and its Ross School of Business, he is the Director of the Emotion and Self-Control Laboratory. He’s the author of the new book, Shift: Managing Your Emotions–So They Don’t Manage You*.

Being a leader means that our emotions get triggered, often many times a day. While none of us can avoid those triggers, how we respond to them can make all the difference. In this conversation, Ethan and I explore his research on how to better manage our emotions.

Key Points

• We often assume that approaching emotions is universally good and avoiding emotions is universally bad. Reality is much more nuanced.
• We can strategically use our senses to modulate our feelings.
• Music is a simple and powerful way to manage emotions proactively. Use playlists that align with the mood you wish to create.
• Using distancing language when talking to yourself (i.e. saying “you” instead of “I”) can help you regulate.
• Time shifting may help regulate your emotions. Ask yourself, how will I feel about this in a week? A month? A year?
• Different tools work for different people at different times. Experiment to help you determine what works best for you.

Resources Mentioned

• Shift: Managing Your Emotions–So They Don’t Manage You by Ethan Kross

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Find Helpful Advisors, with Ethan Kross (episode 516)
• How to Grow From Your Errors, with Amy Edmondson (episode 663)
• How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

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Sandra Matz is a Columbia Business School professor, computational social scientist, and pioneering expert in psychological targeting. Her research uncovers the hidden relationships between our digital lives and our psychology with the goal of helping businesses and individuals make better decisions. She is the author of Mindmasters: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior*.

Algorithms are becoming more influential with each passing day. That’s why leaders must understand their power and then decide how their organizations engage. In this conversation, Sandra and I discuss where psychological targeting is at, where it’s going, and the opportunity you have to make the world a bit better.

Key Points

• Everyone knows everything in a small town (for better or worse). In the same way, psychological targeting can be used for both evil and good.
• Psychological targeting already is successful at identifying wealth, personality, income level, and sexual orientation – and keeps improving.
• None of this is going away. Understanding how the game of targeting is played can help you make it work to your advantage.
• Leaders and organizations who use targeting responsibly can do tremendous good, including helping people save money and flag early interventions for health crises.
• Be transparent with what data you’re collecting and how you’re using it. Consider newer practices like federated learning that protect privacy and provide permission-based access.
• Design systems and practices that anticipate the reality of future leaders with different values.

Resources Mentioned

• Mindmasters: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior by Sandra Matz

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)
• The Way to Earn Attention, with Raja Rajamannar (episode 521)
• The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)

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Alison Wood Brooks is the O’Brien Associate Professor of Business Administration and Hellman Faculty Fellow at the Harvard Business School, where she created and teaches a course called TALK. As a behavioral scientist, she is a leading expert on the science of conversation and her research was referenced in two of the top ten most-viewed TED talks and depicted in Pixar’s Inside Out 2. She is the author of Talk: The Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves*.

Conversations are the venues where leaders do so much of their work. We all know someone who always can keep a conversation interesting and relevant. In this episode, Alison and I discuss how a key tactic can help you towards more meaningful conversations.

Key Points

• Healthy relationships are critical for success, and relationships are about talking.
• Good conversation is both instinct and deliberate effort. Preparing topics in advance improves conversation immensely.
• Topics for conversation can be sourced from almost anywhere and help even if we don’t use those topics.
• Good topic management is more important than the right topic. The best conversationalists know when to shift.
• Small talk in an essential exploration ground for getting to bigger, more meaningful conversation.

Resources Mentioned

• Talk: The Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves* by Alison Wood Brooks

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• The Way Into Difficult Conversations, with Kwame Christian (episode 497)
• How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
• How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)

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Adam Galinsky is the Vice Dean for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and Paul Calello Professor of Leadership and Ethics at the Columbia Business School. He co-authored the book Friend & Foe and his TED talk, How to Speak Up for Yourself, is one of the most popular of all time with over 7 million views. He’s the author of Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others.

Leaders can delegate many things, but vision is not one of them. Most every leader needs to be able to articulate the future. In this conversation, Adam and I explore the building blocks to get better at inspiring others.

Key Points

• Every leader has the potential to be inspiring. We can choose to get better.
• Whatever a leader says, either positive or negative, will be amplified.
• When values are brought front and center, they inspire behavior that creates a better future.
• Inspiring leaders offer a big picture, optimistic view of the future.
• Make visions simple and vivid. Simplicity is the key to inception. Use strong imagery that brings details to life.
• Repetition is essential for a vision to take hold. The more often we hear something, the more likely it becomes our own truth.

Resources Mentioned

• Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others* by Adam Galinsky

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Sell Your Vision, with Michael Hyatt (episode 482)
• The Beliefs of Inspirational Leaders, with Stephen M. R. Covey (episode 707)
• How to Create Your Personal Vision (Audio course)

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Sunita Sah is an award-winning professor at Cornell University and an expert in organizational psychology, leading groundbreaking research on influence, authority, compliance, and defiance. A trained physician, her research and analyses have been widely published in leading academic journals and media entities including The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Harvard Business Review, and Scientific American. She is the author of Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes*.

We often think of defiance as a snap judgement. Yet, it’s so much more nuanced and purposeful than it often appears. In this conversation, Sunita and I explore the common patterns of defiance and how we can all do a better job of standing up for ourselves.

Key Points

• We follow bad advice – even when we know it is obviously bad – to avoid appearing unhelpful.
• Defiance means acting in accordance with your true values when there is pressure to do otherwise.
• True defiance is not a snap judgement; it’s a process.
• Acts of defiance are preceded by many moments of conscious compliance, when defiance is deferred.
• Five stages of defiance often emerge: (1) Tension, (2) Acknowledgement (to ourselves), (3) Escalation (vocalize to others), (4) Threat of non-compliance, and (5) Act of defiance.
• Vocalizing our concern to someone else is a key pivot point on the journey to ultimately saying no.
• Respond explicitly to these questions: (1) Who am I? (2) What type of situation is this? and (3) What does a person like me do in a situation such as this?

Resources Mentioned

• Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes* by Sunita Sah

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Find Courage to Speak When It Matters Most, with Allan McDonald (episode 229)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide*.

Listener Questions

• Josh asked about helpful practices for setting chat groups in the workplace, especially for remote workers.
• Lily was curious about the best way to structure a first session of a new innovation group and also how to help people engage.
• Nicole wondered how she might navigate a situation with a particular donor who is asking for more support than is typical.

Resources Mentioned

• The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters* by Priya Parker
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable* by Patrick Lencioni
• Sunrise, Sunset from Fiddler on the Roof

Related Episodes

• How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)
• Transitioning to Remote Leadership, with Tammy Bjelland (episode 509)
• Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)

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Jennifer Garvey Berger is cofounder and CEO of Cultivating Leadership, a consultancy that serves executives and teams in the private, non-profit, and government sectors. Her clients include Google, Microsoft, Novartis, Wikipedia, and Oxfam International. She is the author of four leadership books, including now in it’s second edition, Changing on the Job: How Leaders Become Courageous, Wise, and Steady in an Anxious World*.

We often think about feedback as something we give to someone else. What if, in addition to that, feedback is an opportunity for both parties to learn and grow? In this conversation, Jennifer and I explore how this can open a door to some of the best leadership work we do.

Key Points

• If we view feedback as only giving our truth to someone else, we’ve missed a huge opportunity for growth.
• Start by separating what happened from the interpretation of what happened.
• Get curious about your own response: what made you react so strongly?
• Talk it out. You have to welcome someone else into your thinking if you’re going to really learn.
• Invite in how the other person sees the situation. Consider saying, “I’m really interested in what this looked like from your perspective.”
• The process of unwinding what you hear is the good work of leadership and some the best work you can do.
• Build a solution together.

Resources Mentioned

• Changing on the Job: How Leaders Become Courageous, Wise, and Steady in an Anxious World* by Jennifer Garvey Berger

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Essentials of Adult Development, with Mindy Danna (episode 273)
• How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583)
• How to Lead Better Through Complexity, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 613)

Production Credit

Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest.

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Anne Chow was the CEO of AT&T Business and the first woman of color CEO in AT&T’s 140+ year history, responsible for leading a $35B global operating unit of over 35,000 people. She was named to Fortune’s Most Powerful Women in Business twice and today serves on a number of boards, including FranklinCovey, 3M, and CSX. She is the author of Lead Bigger: The Transformative Power of Inclusion.

We all know the importance of values, but it’s often hard to know where to begin when clarifying them with a team. In this conversation, Anne and I explore how to align on values that support a great culture and move towards a vision.

Key Points

• Values and ideologies are distinct. Leading bigger means honoring diverse ideologies while aligning on core values.
• Bigger leaders have the courage to admit and cite situations where they fall short.
• When asking people to craft values, invite them to start by individually considering their personal values.
• When discussing values as a group, highlight both the common agreements and also the outlying ideas.
• Leaders must ultimately decide which values best embody the culture and vision of their organization.
• Bring in different stakeholders to do a gut check on whether the values are legitimate.
• Measure behaviors against values and review and update values and metrics regularly.

Resources Mentioned

• Lead Bigger: The Transformative Power of Inclusion by Anne Chow

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
• How to Discover What Others Value, with Joe Hart (episode 616)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

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Karthik Ramanna is a professor of business and public policy at the University of Oxford’s Blavatnik School of Government, where he has served as director of one of the world’s most diverse leadership programs. Previously a professor at Harvard Business School, he studies how organizations and leaders build trust with stakeholders. He is the author of The Age of Outrage: How to Lead in a Polarized World.

In a lot of ways, leadership is better than it was a generation ago. One way that it isn’t better? Figuring out how to lead effectively in an increasingly polarized world. In this conversation, Karthik and I explore what leaders can do to turn down the temperature on outrage.

Key Points

• We tend to frame effective leadership as heroic. In times of outrage, the virtue of temperance becomes essential.
• A leader will never fully address the demands made of them, regardless of how well they act.
• Even when a leader resolves problems, they will be viewed as part of the problem.
• Anticipate times of outrage and create spaces that calm people physically and help them connect with each other.
• Establish rules of engagement outside moments of outrage so that you have a starting point.
• Create pre-arranged workgroups that can help illuminate a path forward for the larger organization.

Resources Mentioned

• The Age of Outrage: How to Lead in a Polarized World by Karthik Ramanna

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
• The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)
• Three Practices for Thriving in Negotiations, with William Ury (episode 669)

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David De Cremer is the Dunton Family Dean of the D’Amore-McKim School of Business and professor of management and technology at Northeastern University. He’s also an affiliated faculty member at the Institute for Experiential AI at Northeastern University and an affiliated researcher at the Center for Collective Intelligence at MIT. His newest book is titled The AI-Savvy Leader: Nine Ways to Take Back Control and Make AI Work*.

We’ve all heard the warnings that AI is going to take our jobs. That’s certainly a possibility in the long term, but the story emerging, at least for now, is looking a little different. In this episode, David and I discuss how leaders can use AI to augment, not replace, human intelligence.

Key Points

• AI is substantially different than prior digital transformations, and adoption efforts are failing at alarming rates.
• Instead of leading, too often leaders are being too deferential to data and analytics teams.
• Your expertise is exactly what your organization needs to deploy AI successfully.
• Leaders who learn the fundamentals of AI will play an essential role in narrating dialogue between the technology experts and everyone else.
• Get just enough foundational knowledge with statistics and modeling to communicate with the data and analytics folks better.

Resources Mentioned

• The AI-Savvy Leader: Nine Ways to Take Back Control and Make AI Work* by David De Cremer

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)
• How to Begin Leading Through Continuous Change, with David Rogers (episode 649)
• Principles for Using AI at Work, with Ethan Mollick (episode 674)

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Keith Ferrazzi is an entrepreneur and global thought leader in high-performing teams and Chairman of Ferrazzi Greenlight and its Research Institute. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller Who’s Got Your Back and bestsellers like Never Eat Alone, Leading Without Authority, and Competing in the New World of Work. His newest book with Paul Hill is titled Never Lead Alone: 10 Shifts from Leadership to Teamship*.

Whenever I’m having a conversation with someone about getting better at coaching, it’s almost always through the lens of, “How do I do it well?” In this conversation, Keith and I explore another perspective most of us miss: how does the team do coaching better for each other.

Key Points

• Good leaders give feedback and hold people accountable. Great leaders ensure the team gives feedback and holds people accountable.
• Teamship starts right at the start. Organizations like e.l.f. Beauty begin these practices during onboarding.
• We over-index on mindset. Starting with the right practices will shape the beliefs that help teamship emerge.
• Use an open 360 where people share one thing they appreciate/admire/respect and one thing they suggest.
• The 5/5/5 Learning Roadmap invites team members to share a struggle, respond to questions, and receive feedback.
• We’re used to feedback being directive. Feedback from peers is data. We can consider it without acting on it.

Resources Mentioned

• Never Lead Alone: 10 Shifts from Leadership to Teamship* by Keith Ferrazzi

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
• Becoming More Coach-Like, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 680)
• Team Collaboration Supports Growth Mindset, with Mary Murphy (episode 695)

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Charles Feltman is the founder of Insight Coaching. He has over 25 years of professional experience coaching, facilitating, consulting to, and training people who lead others. He is the author of The Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work*.

It’s a reality of life that we need to interact with some people we’d rather not. And it’s absolutely a reality of leadership, that sometimes we need to have a conversation with someone we don’t quite trust. In this episode, Charles and I explore how to prepare so it goes better for both parties.

Key Points

• The four assessment domains of trust include care, sincerity, reliability, and competence.

Seven steps to prepare for a conversation:

1. Identify the assessment(s) you are concerned with: care, sincerity, reliability, and/or competence.
2. Define the standard you are using.
3. Identify the specific actions or behaviors that have led to your assessment of distrust.
4. Consider what you are doing that may be contributing to the situation.
5. Determine what you need from them in order for them to regain your trust.
6. Decide if you are willing to talk to the person about it.
7. Ask the other person if they would be willing to have a conversation with you.

Resources Mentioned

• The Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work* by Charles Feltman

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Handle Pushback From Difficult Askers, with Vanessa Patrick (episode 637)
• How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
• How to Change People’s Minds, with Michael McQueen (episode 676)

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Stephen M. R. Covey is a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author and former CEO of Covey Leadership Center. He led the strategy that propelled his father’s book, Dr. Stephen R. Covey’s The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, to become one of the two most influential business books of the 20th Century, according to CEO Magazine. He’s the author The Speed of Trust and more recently Trust & Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others*.

Despite everything we know about good leadership, a lot of places still operate in a command and control mindset. In this conversation, Stephen and I explore the key ways to shift from command and control to trust and inspire.

Key Points

• In spite of all progress, most leaders today are still operating from a command and control mindset.
• The carrot and stick approach still dominates most organizational cultures and tactics.
• The biggest barrier to becoming a Trust & Inspire leader is when we think we already are one.
• People are whole people. The best leaders care for the body, heart, mind, and spirit.
• There is enough for everyone. Trust & Inspire leaders elevate caring above competition.
• Enduring influence is created from the inside out. The job of the leader is to go first.
• All people have greatness inside them. Trust & Inspire leaders work to unleash potential, not control it.

Resources Mentioned

• Trust & Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others* by Stephen M. R. Covey

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
• The Starting Point for Repairing Trust, with Henry Cloud (episode 626)

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Shandy Welch is an executive leadership coach. Her coaching focus is around humanizing leadership and re-engaging individuals and teams to inspire change and innovation. She is also a Coaching for Leaders Fellow.

Most leaders find themselves — at least occasionally — in conversations with people who intimidate them. In this SaturdayCast, Shandy and I share what’s worked for us and how it might help you have better conversations.

Key Points

• Nervousness is your friend. If you feel it, that means you care. Try to get the butterflies flying in formation.
• You are there because you are the best person to be there. Full stop.
• People with visibility will expect you’ve done your homework. If they’ve put something out into the world, they want you to find it.
• Preparation helps you improvise. “You’ve got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail.” -Charlie Parker
• Always assume there is something you can do to help out someone else. Consider their perspective and what they gain from the meeting with you.
• Everybody has doubts and struggles. Remember the humanity that’s present in every interaction.

What was helpful to you from our conversation? We’d love to know. Share it with Shandy at shandywelch@gmail.com

Related Episodes

• How to Talk to People Who Have Power, with Jordan Harbinger (episode 343)
• How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)
• Set the Tone for Speaking Up, with Mike Massimino (episode 672)

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Steve Dennis is a strategy consultant, advisor, speaker, and author focused on transformational leadership and the impact of digital disruption. He is the president of SageBerry Consulting and host of the Remarkable Retail podcast. He’s the author of the book Remarkable Retail and his newest book Leaders Leap: Transforming Your Company at the Speed of Disruption*.

Every leader needs to stay relevant in order to serve well. In this conversation, Steve and I explore the mindset and tactics that will help us lead in the context of an ever-changing world.

Key Points

• Self-sufficiency is a virtue, until it’s not. Learning to ask for help is a key practice for leaders.
• Be cautious about a deserving attitude. High expectations may be correlated with low resilience.
• Seek insight everywhere. It’s no longer sufficient just to gain ideas from direct competitors.
• Turning pro means showing up and doing the work, especially when we don’t feel like it.
• We must go through discomfort, not around it. Radical acceptance of truth will help you stay relevant in changing times.

Resources Mentioned

• Leaders Leap: Transforming Your Company at the Speed of Disruption* by Steve Dennis

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)
• How to Help People Engage in Growth, with Whitney Johnson (episode 576)
• How to Keep Improving, with Maurice Ashley (episode 697)

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Seth Godin has published 21 bestselling books that have changed the way people think about work. He writes one of the most popular blogs in the world, and two of his TED talks are among the most popular of all time. His blog is at seths.blog and his newest book is titled This is Strategy*.

Seth writes this: “It’s not clear to me why business plans are the way they are, but they’re often misused to obfuscate, bore, and show an ability to comply with expectations.” In this conversation, Seth and I explore the key components of a modern business plan.

Key Points

• Big problems require small solutions.
• We often skip strategy because most of us have trained our whole lives for tactics.
• A modern business is clear about systems and the status quo. Use the system if you intend to change the system.
• Assertions are the heart of a business plan. Leaders need to have empathy for someone else’s “better.”
• Articulating alternatives helps you stay resilient when some of your assertions are inevitably wrong.
• Find people to support you who have a track record of shipping.
• A useful business plan gets easier over time and persists (and maybe even thrives) when the world changes.

The six sections of a modern business plan:

1. Truth
2. Assertions
3. Alternatives
4. People
5. Money
6. Time

Resources Mentioned

• This is Strategy* by Seth Godin

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How Leaders Build, with Guy Raz (episode 491)
• How to Grow Your Business, with Donald Miller (episode 629)
• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Maha Abouelenein is an American Egyptian with more than 30 years of global communications experience advising global corporate giants, startups, governments, CEOs and high-net-worth individuals. She is the CEO of Digital and Savvy, a strategic communications consulting firm with offices in the States and Dubai. Maha is the author of 7 Rules of Self-Reliance: How to Stay Low, Keep Moving, Invest in Yourself and Own Your Future*.

One of the definitions of the word currency in Merriam-Webster’s dictionary is, “General use, acceptance, or prevalence.” All of us want to be both accepted and prevalent in the work we get to do. In this conversation, Maha and I discuss how your reputation is perhaps the most important currency of all.

Key Points

• Personal brand isn’t about self promotion, it’s about leadership.
• Rather than promoting yourself, promote the ideas that you stand for.
• Reputation is currency. It’s the only thing you truly own and its value comes from how other people perceive it.
• Sometimes it’s the right move to take a job to earn. It’s also important to take jobs to learn.
• Knowing what you stand for is key, but this doesn’t come overnight.
• We all make missteps. What’s often more remembered is how you respond. Apologize and have empathy when things go wrong.

Resources Mentioned

• 7 Rules of Self-Reliance: How to Stay Low, Keep Moving, Invest in Yourself and Own Your Future* by Maha Abouelenein

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Making the Case for Your Promotion, with May Busch (episode 526)
• How to Tell a Story About Yourself, with David Hutchens (episode 661)
• An Invitation for Kindness in Leadership, with James Rhee (episode 693)

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Jonathan Raymond is the founder of Refound and Ren AI. He helps leaders make work a better place, one conversation at a time. He’s the author of the book Good Authority: How to Become the Leader Your Team Is Waiting for and hosts the podcast of the same name. He’s also the creator of The Accountability Dial, used by many in our community to support healthy accountability in their organizations.

With all the tools and technology we have access to, it’s so easy to fall in the trap of mostly being transactional. Yet, leadership is at its best when it elevates above the transaction and builds the broader relationship. In this conversation, Jonathan and I discuss how to make that shift.

Key Points

• While the pandemic helped us shift in some helpful ways, it also created an environment where leaders don’t always feel safe with healthy accountability.
• The most healthy conversations have consequences if change does not happen.
• The primary obstacle to holding people accountable is fear. Leaders will find times when then not able to defend themselves.
• Having access to too much detail is a recipe for micromanagement. The best feedback moves away from transitional and towards relational.
• Find places of retreat to spend unstructured, non-transactional time.
• Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good. Hold people accountable for the qualities of leadership, not the outcomes.

Resources Mentioned

• Ren AI: a platform of AI-powered tools built on the Good Authority methodology
• Good Authority: How to Become the Leader Your Team Is Waiting For* by Jonathan Raymond

Related Episodes

• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583)
• How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)

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Dan Dworkis is Chief Medical Officer at The Mission Critical Team Institute. He’s an emergency physician who helps individuals and teams apply knowledge under extreme pressure and perform at their best when it matters the most. He is the author of The Emergency Mind: Wiring Your Brain for Performance Under Pressure*.

Every leader, at least occasionally, faces emergencies. In an emergency, the only way out is through. In this conversation, Dan and I explore the mindsets and tactics that will help us handle the most difficult situations.

Key Points

• Emergencies are not just worse bad days. They are liminal — the only way out is through.
• Apply graduated pressure. Never allow suffering to be wasted. By going a bit slower, you notice where and why failures happen.
• Label an emergency with language that both recognizes the urgency of the situation and your faith in the team to resolve it.
• The room is always smarter than any one person in it. Tell people what problem they are working and your confidence level in it.
• Staying cool under pressure is not a fixed personality trait. You can get better by noticing and experimenting with what works for you (and doesn’t) to handle high-pressure situations.
• Experience makes working under pressure easier, but you still need to practice for it. Notice what’s effective (and not) in past and new situations before you experiment.
• Use situations in everyday life (a hard workout, an angry customer, getting cut off in traffic) to train yourself for responding in the toughest situations.

Resources Mentioned

• The Emergency Mind: Wiring Your Brain for Performance Under Pressure* by Dan Dworkis

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

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Andrew C.M. Cooper is an executive leader and apologist for compassionate business practices. He led as a history-making first Millennial and Black executive to serve as General Counsel of UPS Airlines, the world’s largest logistics airline with over 20,000 employees. His team was essential to the success of Operation Warp Speed, the United States’ pandemic vaccine relief effort. He’s the author of The Ethical Imperative: Leading with Conscience to Shape the Future of Business*.

We all know the power of relationships to help us grow. However, we don’t always seek out some of the non-traditional relationships that might help most. In this conversation, Andrew and I discuss three types of people we often overlook that will help us grow.

Key Points

• Many of us invest in organic, traditional relationships. Those are important, but not sufficient in such a dynamic world.
• Invest 30% of your time into relationships that will add skills, knowledge, or insights you can’t develop yourself.
• Shifters observe well, read between the lines, and help us adapt in uncertain and changing situations.
• Connectors will help your expand professional affiliations. Having a connector in your corner can be as helpful as being a connector yourself.
• People who first appear as sharks may be benevolent antagonists. Listen for what others around them say to determine who might challenge you in healthy ways.

Resources Mentioned

• The Ethical Imperative: Leading with Conscience to Shape the Future of Business* by Andrew C.M. Cooper

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Strengthen Your Network, with Marissa King (episode 525)
• How to Build a Network While Still Doing Everything Else, with Ruth Gotian (episode 591)
• How to Recognize Remarkable People, with Guy Kawasaki (episode 671)

Production Credit

Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest.

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Laura West is a seasoned leader and researcher with many years experience executing and training others in data analysis and strategy. She’s led large teams across several organizations, holds a Ph.D. in linguistics, and is an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. She was selected as one of our new Coaching for Leaders fellows and has taken on a leadership role in supporting our current Academy members.

What do you do when you get a request from a stakeholder, but don’t have the resources to fulfill it? That’s a reality almost every leader faces. In this conversation, Laura and I discuss both the mindset and tactics that will help you respond well.

Key Points

• Rather than an immediate “no,” spend an hour working through some steps to creatively problem solve around the request.
• Show your work. When you respond, share who you’ve talked with and what’s already been considered to respond to the request.
• Present options by summarizing 2-4 paths forward and your recommendations.
• Be the data person. Highlight trends over time that help influence different business decisions and maintain your credibility.
• Prioritize. But tell, don’t ask. Take the lead on identifying what’s important on behalf of the stakeholder and begin the work.

Resources Mentioned

• Responding to Stakeholder Requests With Limited Resources by Laura West (free membership required)

Related Episodes

• The Way to Turn Followers Into Leaders, with David Marquet (episode 241)
• How to Start Managing Up, with Tom Henschel (episode 433)
• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)

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Steven Rogelberg is an organizational psychologist, holding the title of Chancellor’s Professor at UNC Charlotte for distinguished national, international and interdisciplinary contributions. He is an award-winning teacher and recipient of the Humboldt Award for his research on meetings. He is the author of Glad We Met: The Art and Science of 1:1 Meetings*.

Many us appreciate the value of 1:1 meetings with employees. For a lot of managers, it’s one of their biggest time commitments. And yet, nobody ever taught us how to do it. In this conversation, Steven and I discuss how to actually structure an effective 1:1.

Key Points

• First and foremost, a 1:1 meeting is for the direct report.
• A set schedule for 1:1’s with your team reduces bias by ensuring you connect with everyone, consistently.
• A loose framework is better than a lock-step agenda. Two approaches help: the manager proposing a core question or listing out topics that the direct report brings.
• Avoid status update meetings by articulating the purpose of 1:1’s and dedicating agenda time (or future meetings) to bigger picture topics.
• Skip-level 1:1’s are valuable for both employees and senior leaders. Avoid undermining another leader by approaching the meeting with the mindset to support the employee, rather than making decisions.

Resources Mentioned

• Glad We Met: The Art and Science of 1:1 Meetings* by Steven Rogelberg

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)
• Bringing Your Strengths to a Big Job, with General CQ Brown, Jr. (episode 691)

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Maurice Ashley is a Chess Grandmaster, an ESPN commentator, a three-time national championship coach, and an author. In 1999 he earned the title of Chess Grandmaster, making him the first Black Grandmaster in the game’s history, and in 2016 he was inducted into the US Chess Hall of Fame. He’s the author of Move by Move: Life Lessons on and off the Chessboard*.

There was a time that you could get a degree or a certification and you’ve be set on your learning for awhile. Those days are long gone. With change happening at the speed of thought, we must keep improving. In this conversation, Maurice and I discuss the mindsets and tactics that will help you keep growing.

Key Points

• Jazz artists don’t think about each note, but instinctively know how to make beautiful music. The best chess players are like this.
• Elite performers constantly look for ways to cultivate the beginner’s mindset.
• Chess players who pay attention to the endgame are less likely to get caught up only in the tactics.
• The most vulnerable time for a chess player is when they have a big lead.
• Poor performers avoid spending time with their mistakes. The best players learn from them through debrief.
• Determine in advance where you need to stay hyper-focused.
• Temper overconfidence by posing additional in-game challenges for yourself and your team.

Resources Mentioned

• Move by Move: Life Lessons on and off the Chessboard* by Maurice Ashley

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Actually Move Numbers, with Chris McChesney (episode 294)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
• How to Grow From Your Errors, with Amy Edmondson (episode 663)

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Marshall Goldsmith is one of the world’s leading executive coaches. He’s written 56 books, selling over 3 million copies, including 8 bestsellers and 4 New York Times bestsellers. He’s been ranked twice by Thinkers50 as the #1 leadership thinker in the world and ranked the #1 executive coach in the world for over a decade.

Marshall’s most popular book is What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful*. In this episode, Marshall and I explore the key lessons from this iconic book and the most common habits that hold leaders back.

Key Points

• The superstition trap: I behave this way and I am successful, therefore I am successful because I behave this way.
• The higher you go, the more your problems are behavioral.
• Winning too much is a trap for successful people. Ask yourself, “Is it worth it?”
• Be aware that your suggestions become orders.
• Avoid starting your responses with “no,” “but,” or “however.” It’s hard to hear things we already know.
• We are not here on Earth to prove how smart we are. Help more, judge less.
• We all reinforce people who reinforce us. We hate obvious suck-ups, but not the good ones. The good suck-ups can easily fool the best leaders.
• Beware an excessive need to “be me.” Instead, be who you want and need to be.

Resources Mentioned

• What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful* by Marshall Goldsmith
• MarshallGoldsmith.ai

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
• The Power of Courage in Leadership Growth, with Jorge Alzate (episode 611)
• What Vulnerable Leadership Sounds Like, with Jacob Morgan (episode 648)

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Mary Murphy is Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Indiana University. She is also Founding Director of the Summer Institute on Diversity at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University and founder and CEO of the Equity Accelerator, a research and consulting organization that works with schools and companies to create more equitable learning and working environments. She is the author of Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations*.

Many of us have heard the distinction between a fixed and a growth mindset. Turns out it’s more of a both/and, especially with our teams. In this conversation, Mary and I discuss how team collaboration can support a growth mindset.

Key Points

• Nobody has only a fixed or a growth mindset. While we may favor one, all of us shift between them.
• Team culture is so powerful that it can either block or encourage a growth mindset.
• Mindset doesn’t just affect perceptions and behaviors, it shapes the bottom line.
• To support collaboration, begin with a cues audit. Consider starting with affinity groups.
• It’s misperception that cultures of growth are less data-centric than cultures of genius. The opposite is actually true.
• Don’t eliminate competition, recast it. Consider how incentives align with supporting others and the organization as a whole.
• Yes, share outcomes — and also include the distance traveled to achieve them. This supports a culture of growth.
• Traditional rating systems, especially forced-rankings, often reinforce cultures of genius.

Resources Mentioned

• Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations* by Mary Murphy
• Culture Cues Assessment

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Growth Mindset Helps You Rise From the Ashes, with Jeff Hittenberger (episode 326)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• Help Your Team Embrace Growth Mindset, with Eduardo Briceño (episode 644)

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Maureen Dunne is a cognitive scientist, neurodiversity expert, global keynote speaker, board director, and business leader with over two decades of experience helping organizations build thriving cultures. She has served as a Senior Advisor to some of the world’s top organization, including the LEGO Foundation, Cornell University, and Members of Congress. She is the author of The Neurodiversity Edge: The Essential Guide to Embracing Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, and Other Neurological Differences for Any Organization*.

We often don’t notice our deeply held biases — and there’s certainly bias against neurodiversity. In this conversation, Maureen and I discuss the research, mindsets, and contributions relevant to neurodiversity. Plus, how neurodiversity can provide an edge for almost every organization.

Key Points

• We often don’t see our deeply held biases. As one example, we assume that north is “up” on maps and globes, even though that’s only a construct.
• Research and estimates vary, but at least 20% of the population is neurodivergent.
• Divergent bees in hives find new sources of honey. Instead of viewing neurodivergence from a deficit-based perspective, use a strengths-based approach.
• Intellectual capability is entirely independent of having a neurodivergent profile.
• Rather than maintaining accommodations for “quirky people,” move towards a norm of universal accommodations that benefit the entire employee population.

Resources Mentioned

• The Neurodiversity Edge: The Essential Guide to Embracing Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, and Other Neurological Differences for Any Organization* by Maureen Dunne

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Begin Difficult Conversations About Race, with Kwame Christian (episode 594)
• Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)
• How to Be a Better Ally, with Lauren Wesley Wilson (episode 675)

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James Rhee is a former high school teacher and Harvard Law School graduate who became a private equity investor and unexpectedly an acclaimed CEO. He bridges math with emotions by marrying capital with purpose, while composing systems that bridge peoples, disciplines, and ideas. James is the author of Red Helicopter: Lead Change With Kindness (Plus a Little Math)*.

Bad news: leaders are often the ones who make the rules that prevent kindness. Good news: leaders are also the ones who can change the rules. In this conversation, James and I explore how leadership (and results) improve when kindness is at the center of our work.

Key Points

• We all know the power of intuitive, childhood truths. Leaders should champion these, even if that means challenging the establishment.
• Brené Brown says, “Clear is kind.” Clarity emerges by also ensuring an alignment with reality by leveraging math.
• Kindness is not random or entertaining. It’s an intentional, consistent practice.
• Leaders make the rules that encumber kindness — and they have the capacity to change those rules.
• The cost centers of an organization are a creative opportunity for kindness.

Resources Mentioned

• Red Helicopter: Lead Change With Kindness (Plus a Little Math)* by James Rhee
• Arirang Amazing Grace for a Red Helicopter

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)
• How Leaders Build, with Guy Raz (episode 491)
• The Power of Leadership Through Hospitality, with Will Guidara (episode 688)

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Lisa Cummings is the founder of Lead Through Strengths, a firm supporting building strengths into your team’s culture. She’s also the host of the Lead Through Strengths podcast. Lisa is a Gallup-certified strengths coach and has trained over 20,000 people in 14 countries. Today, she facilitates offsites and retreats to help leaders and their teams go deep on utilizing their strengths well.

When challenges arise in leadership, we sometimes miss what’s right in front of us. In this conversation, Lisa and I discuss how to zero in on your core strengths and utilize them to address new challenges that arise.

Key Points

• Lisa began her StrengthsFinder journey through the First Break All the Rules book. Dave began his with the Soar With Your Strengths book.
• Many of us value what we’ve worked hardest to achieve, but those areas aren’t typically our core strengths.
• The talents appearing on the bottom of your StrengthsFinder assessment are the approaches that tend to drain you and lead to burnout.
• It’s helpful to focus on removing blind spots. Those are most often hidden in our top strengths.
• When new leadership issues come up, aim your top strengths at them. Often, there’s an opportunity to reframe challenges in the context of your strengths.

Resources Mentioned

• CliftonStrengths (formerly StrengthsFinder) assessment
• StrengthsFinder Talents overview by Lisa Cummings
• Contact Lisa for a question or workshop

Related Episodes

• How Teams Use StrengthsFinder Results, with Lisa Cummings (episode 293)
• Craft a Career to Fit Your Strengths, with Scott Anthony Barlow (episode 424)
• Bringing Your Strengths to a Big Job, with General CQ Brown, Jr. (episode 691)

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General CQ Brown, Jr. is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation’s highest-ranking military officer. As Chairman, he is the principal military advisor to the President of the United States, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council. Prior to this role, he was the first Black officer in American history to head one of our military branches as Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force. Time Magazine has named him one of the top 100 most influential people in the world.

Effective leaders discover how to best use their strengths, and of course, champion the strengths of others. In this conversation, General Brown and I discuss how he uses his strengths and what he does to bring those strengths into people development, high-level meetings, and problem-solving.

Key Points

• If you are well below average at something, don’t spend time and effort trying to improve. Instead, partner with others who have it as a superpower.
• Give people work that is aligned with their strengths.
• Fight for feedback, especially in a top job. Find people who will give it to you straight. Listen well so they keep offering it.
• Leverage your strengths in communication. For General Brown, using his engineering training to solve problems and using metaphors and analogies to create clarity.
• Have the meeting after the meeting in the meeting.
• Tell people where your strengths might get in the way. For General Brown, highlighting that silence that could appear intimidating is often him just listening and thinking.

Related Episodes

• Leadership in the Midst of Chaos, with Jim Mattis (episode 440)
• Your Leadership Motive, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 505)
• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)

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Mitch Warner is a managing partner of the Arbinger Institute. The Institute has authored three best-selling books and helps leaders transform their organizations by enabling the fundamental shift in mindset that leads to exceptional results. Now in its fourth edition, Leadership and Self-Deception: The Secret to Transforming Relationships & Unleashing Results*, is today one of the top fifty best-selling leadership books of all time.

Shifting behavior in a sustainable way requires us to change our mindset. In this conversation, Mitch and I explore how self-deception gets in our way and how we can take the first step by seeing others as people.

Key Points

• In many cases, we are the carriers of the very problems we are complaining about. We often resist this reality.
• We often assume we aren’t the cause of problems because of our good intentions.
• Mindset drives our behaviors and the effectiveness and influence of those behaviors.
• Seeing someone as less than a person causes us to see the world in a way that justifies our judgement.
• Too often, conflicts manifest as people provoking another’s behavior in order to justify themselves.
• Our own justification is an indicator that we may be wrong to begin with.
• Viewing others as either better or worse than ourselves creates justification that prevents awareness and change.
• Get outside of yourself by meeting to learn about them. If the relationship has been strained, consider meeting to give.

Resources Mentioned

• Leadership and Self-Deception: The Secret to Transforming Relationships & Unleashing Results* by The Arbinger Institute
• The Arbinger Institute

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Compare Yourself to Others, with Mollie West Duffy (episode 582)
• Help Your Team Embrace Growth Mindset, with Eduardo Briceño (episode 644)
• The Way to Handle Oblivious Leadership, with Robert Sutton (episode 667)

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José Antonio Bowen has won teaching awards at Stanford and Georgetown and is past president of Goucher College. He has written over 100 scholarly articles and has appeared as a musician with Stan Getz, Bobby McFerrin, and others. He is the author of multiple books in higher education and is a senior fellow for the American Association of Colleges and Universities. He is the author with C. Edward Watson of Teaching With AI: A Practical Guide to a New Era of Human Learning*.

AI will change how we work, but it’s also going to change how we think. In this conversation, José and I explore where to begin working with AI and why those who can use it will serve a critical role in shaping what’s next.

Key Points

• Physical maps make you smarter than GPS, but GPS is more practical for daily use. AI isn’t inherently good or bad, but like the internet, it will change how we work.
• AI will eliminate some jobs, but it will change every job. Those who can work with AI will replace those who can’t.
• Rather than thinking about creativity through the lens of responses from AI, focus on bringing creativity into your prompts.
• Most of the AI progress for companies is coming from non-tech folks that are figuring out how specific tasks get more efficient.
• AI is very good at some things and not good at others. You’ll discover how this relates to your work by experimenting with different prompts.

Resources Mentioned

• Teaching With AI: A Practical Guide to a New Era of Human Learning* by José Antonio Bowen and C. Edward Watson
• Example AI Prompts by José Antonio Bowen
• The Human Side of Generative AI: Creating a Path to Productivity by Aaron De Smet, Sandra Durth, Bryan Hancock, Marino Mugayar-Baldocchi, and Angelika Reich
• Moderna and OpenAI partner to Accelerate the Development of Life-Saving Treatments
• The State of AI in Early 2024: Gen AI Adoption Spikes and Starts to Generate Value by Alex Singla, Alexander Sukharevsky, Lareina Yee, Michael Chui, and Bryce Hall

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Make Your Reading More Meaningful, with Sönke Ahrens (episode 564)
• Principles for Using AI at Work, with Ethan Mollick (episode 674)
• How to Enhance Your Credibility (Audio course)

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Will Guidara is the former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, which under his leadership received four stars from the New York Times, three Michelin stars, and in 2017 was named #1 on the list of the World’s 50 Best Restaurants. He has co-authored four cookbooks, was named one of Crain’s New York Business’s 40 Under 40, and is the recipient of WSJ Magazine’s Innovator Award. He is the author of Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect*.

We expect hospitality from a restaurant or hotel, but we often miss opportunities for this mindset at work. In this conversation, Will and I discuss effective leadership as an act of hospitality, not only for the organization and team — but for the leader themselves.

Key Points

• Service is black and white. Hospitality is color.
• Hospitality elevates service not only for the person receiving it, but for the person delivering it.
• Hospitality is a dialogue, not a monologue. With employees, this means giving feedback continuously.
• When offering criticism, make a charitable assumption. The message is still the message, but the context matters.
• Giving attention to your top performers does a lot to invest others in their work.
• Make it cool to care.

Resources Mentioned

• Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect* by Will Guidara

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Lead Part-Time Staff, with Chris Deferio (episode 289)
• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• The Mindset to Help Your Organization Grow, with Tiffani Bova (episode 633)

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Roy Schwartz is co-founder and CEO at Axios HQ, the world’s first AI-powered internal communications management platform. He’s also the co-founder of Axios, the award-winning news organization known for its Smart Brevity writing style. He’s the co-author, along with Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen of Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More With Less*.

Most organizations spend way more time and strategy on external communications than internal ones. In this conversation, Roy and I discuss how your internal strategy can reduce email, save time, and create space for innovation and insight.

Key Points

• An effective, internal publication via email reduces the amount of total messaging people receive.
• Position one, big item in every publication. There should be a hierarchy of what’s important, since not everyone will read everything.
• Keep each topic to 200 words and under 1,000 words for the entire publication.
• For each topic, start with a strong, first sentence — and then provide context for why it matters.
• Find a word other than “newsletter” to name a regular, internal publication.
• Bring personality and smiles into internal publications. People will engage and look forward to reading.
• Done well, internal publications help inform, recognize, provide accountability, and allow leaders to focus on the human aspects of communication.

Resources Mentioned

• Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More With Less* by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz
• Axios HQ: AI-powered newsletter software

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Make Sense to Others, with Tom Henschel (episode 518)
• Getting Better at Reading the Room, with Kirstin Ferguson (episode 651)
• Get People Reading What You’re Sending, with Todd Rogers (episode 666)

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Laurie Arron is the founder of Arron Coaching, LLC and trusted adviser and executive coach to C-suite executives and Chiefs of Staff. She spent 30+ years climbing the corporate ladder at a Fortune 10 company in sales leadership, strategic planning, business transformation, and Chief of Staff roles. She is the author of Who Has Your Back?: A Leaders’s Guide to Getting the Support You Need from the Chief of Staff You Deserve.

Executive leaders need both truth-tellers and those who can manage on their behalf. Increasingly, the Chief of Staff role is becoming more prominent. In this episode, Laurie and I discuss their role, where they add value, and how they benefit the entire team.

Key Points

• The Chief of Staff role has become a more prevalent executive role, especially in the technology, finance, and healthcare industries.
• A Chief of Staff is distinct from an executive assistant. A effective Chief represents the leader, manages on their behalf, and coordinates their work.
• Every top leader needs a truth teller. A key role of the Chief of Staff is to be up-front with the person they serve.
• An effective Chief is proactive in addressing issues before the leader ever knows about them. They know where messages are being lost or diluted.
• Ideally, the Chief of Staff helps create a climate of free expression throughout the team.

Resources Mentioned

• Who Has Your Back?: A Leaders’s Guide to Getting the Support You Need from the Chief of Staff You Deserve by Laurie Arron
• Let Bartlet Be Bartlet from The West Wing

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)
• How to Start a Top Job, with Ty Wiggins (episode 685)

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Ty Wiggins is a leadership expert who is passionate about setting up new CEOs for success. As the global lead of Russell Reynolds Associates’ CEO & Executive Transition Practice, he helps world-leading CEOs successfully transition into their roles, guiding them through their first 12-18 months as their trusted advisor. He is the author of The New CEO: Lessons from CEOs on How to Start Well and Perform Quickly (Minus the Common Mistakes)*.

Taking on a top job is unique in many ways. In this conversation, Ty and I explore what new, top leaders can do to get out of the bubble and hear more truth. Plus, we discuss why the first 90 or 100 days might not be the best metric for top leaders, and how to better start with easy wins and early moves.

Key Points

• You’ll see more in the top job, but hear less. This is even more pronounced for those promoted internally.
• Getting out of the bubble means spending more time with middle managers and front-line employees. Second and third time CEOs do this more from the start.
• Key questions that can help you hear more: (1) Tell me some of the workarounds you have in place and (2) What’s the question I haven’t asked you but I should?
• The first 90 or 100 days as a success metric is often overstated in top jobs. You’re often still learning context at an exponential rate.
• If it’s on fire, fix it. If it is smold­ering, leave it alone until you have more context.
• It’s helpful to address common pain points for easy wins. They don’t have to be enormous, but they should be deliberate.

Resources Mentioned

• The New CEO: Lessons from CEOs on How to Start Well and Perform Quickly (Minus the Common Mistakes)* by Ty Wiggins

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How an Executive Aligns with a Board, with Joan Garry (episode 662)

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Ruth Gotian is the Chief Learning Officer and Associate Professor of Education in Anaesthesiology at Weill Cornell Medicine. She has been hailed by Nature and The Wall Street Journal as an expert in mentorship and leader­ship development. Thinkers50 has ranked her the #1 emerging management thinker in the world and she’s a top LinkedIn voice in mentoring. Ruth is the author of The Success Factor and now along with Andy Lopata, The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring*.

We’ve all heard about the benefits of mentoring. In addition to receiving mentoring, great leaders give back by providing it to others. In this episode, Ruth and I discuss what the research shows that the best mentors do well.

Key Points

• Effective mentors use a combination of skills in coaching, sponsorship, role-modeling, and mentoring to support the situation.
• Informal mentoring tends to be more effective than formal pairings. 61% of mentoring relationships develop organically.
• Open up your network to your mentee. It’s an essential way to support their growth — and yours.
• Park your ego at the door. Instead, allow your mentee to shine. With their permission, amplify their achievements.
• Take the role of “sophisticated barbarian.” Approach mentee situations with knowledge and experience, but with distance and objectivity of their other, daily interactions.
• Document the challenges, accomplishments, and next steps during mentoring. This helps your mentee recognize accomplishments and grow their confidence.

Resources Mentioned

• The Financial Times Guide to Mentoring by Ruth Gotian and Andy Lopata

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Build a Network While Still Doing Everything Else, with Ruth Gotian (episode 591)
• The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)

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David Novak is Co-Founder and the retired Chairman and CEO of Yum! Brands, the world’s largest restaurant company. During his tenure as CEO, Yum! Brands became a global powerhouse, growing from $4 billion in market cap to over $32 billion. After retiring in 2016, he became Founder and CEO of David Novak Leadership, dedicated to developing leaders at every stage of life. He is the author of How Leaders Learn: Master the Habits of the World’s Most Successful People.

One element of powerful leadership is bringing different people and ideas together to create something entirely new. In this conversation, David and I discuss how leaders can use pattern thinking to create new value. Plus, we explore why active learning is so critical for successful leadership.

Key Points

• Pattern thinking is 1+1 = 3. Create something bigger than its parts by pairing things not related to make something new.
• Be curious about the world by being an active learner. Use books, travel, listening, and hobbies to come across insights you wouldn’t normally see.
• Active learners seek out patterns proactively in order to create something new.

Questions to ask yourself:

The last time you came up with an especially creative idea or solution, what was your inspiration? What pattern were you applying and where had you discovered it?

How much time do you spend exploring outside your usual work and life experiences? Where are you getting exposure to different disciplines or industries?

Think of a challenge you’re facing or a problem you’ve been struggling to solve? Have you looked for patterns or ideas from unusual sources yet? If not, where could you turn next?

Resources Mentioned

• How Leaders Learn: Master the Habits of the World’s Most Successful People by David Novak

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)
• Better Ways to Lead Brainstorming, with Jeremy Utley (episode 630)
• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide.

Question from Qasim

• Qasim asked our thoughts on how to break the busy cycle and actually get started with something important.
• Aruj wondered how to handle a tricky situation where colleagues are gossiping lots in the office.
• Alice has three great opportunities in front of her was curious our advice on how to decide between them.

Resources Mentioned

• How to Decide by Annie Duke

Related Episodes

• How to Start a Conversation With Anyone, with Mark Sieverkropp (episode 177)
• How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block (episode 328)
• The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)
• The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678)

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Matt Abrahams is an educator, author, podcast host, and coach. He is a lecturer in Organizational Behavior at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business and a keynote speaker and communication consultant for Fortune 100 companies. He is the host of the popular podcast Think Fast, Talk Smart and the author of Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot*.

One of the most common places leaders get put on the spot is when facilitating a question and answer session. In this episode, Matt and I discuss the mindset, preparation, and steps that will help you answer questions with confidence and increase credibility with your audience.

Key Points

• Many presenters think about a Q&A session like playing dodgeball. It’s more helpful to frame it as dialogue.
• Answering questions well allows you to project authenticity, expand on key points, and resolve objections.
• Use the ADD framework to respond to a question. A: answer the question, D: detail an example, and D: describe the value. If helpful, adjust the order.
• Set boundaries for the kinds of questions you’ll answer and the timeframe for them. The audience expects you to lead the conversation.
• Ask yourself a question if nobody else asks one first. This might start with, “A question I’m commonly asked…”
• End with an exclamation point. Sticking the landing provides you confidence and shows credibility to your audience.

Resources Mentioned

• Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot* by Matt Abrahams

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)
• How to Rehearse Before a Presentation, with Jacqueline Farrington (episode 645)
• That’s a Great Question (Dave’s Journal)

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Michael Bungay Stanier is the author of eight books, including The Coaching Habit*, which has sold more than a million copies and is the best-selling book on coaching this century. He is the founder Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that’s trained thousands of people around the world to be more coach-like. His TEDx Talk on Taming Your Advice Monster has been viewed more than a million times.

One of the most common desires leaders espouse is wanting to get better at helping others grow. One great way to do that is to become more coach-like. In this conversation, Michael and I explore how we can do better at building this skill.

Key Points

• Care deeply for others while also being disconnected from their outcomes. Give people responsibility for their own freedom.
• Consider asking, “How much risk are you willing to take?” Allow the other party to define the boundaries.
• Bring a difficult observation as a third point. Separate the message from the person and let them decide what’s true.
• Avoid asking “why” questions of others to avoid putting people on the defensive and trying to solve their problems.
• A helpful checkpoint: is this question something that’s helping me or helping the other party?
• Silence is a measure of success. When you ask a question that lands, people need time to answer.
• Your body leads your brain. Notice your physical presence and how it manifests when you’re listening well.

Resources Mentioned

• The Coaching Habit* by Michael Bungay Stanier
• Register your book receipt for bonus items from Michael

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• Leadership in the Midst of Chaos, with Jim Mattis (episode 440)
• How to Lead Better Through Complexity, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 613)
• How to Help Others Be Seen and Heard, with Scott Shigeoka (episode 654)

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Jeff Wetzler is co-CEO of Transcend, a nationally recognized innovation organization, and an expert in learning and human potential. His experience spans 25+ years in business and education, as a management consultant to top corporations, a learning facilitator for leaders, and as Chief Learning Officer at Teach For America.

He is a member of the Aspen Global Leadership Network and is an Edmund Hillary Fellow. Jeff is the author of Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life*.

Leaders are not the only people who need to have difficult conversations in the workplace. Yet, leaders set the tone for how much people are willing and able to talk about hard things. In this episode, Jeff and I discuss how leaders can make it easier for those important conversations to happen.

Key Points

• In one study of managers, most people admitted to remaining silent with their bosses and nearly 75% said colleagues also felt uncomfortable speaking up.
• Meet people on their own turf. Others are more likely to speak up if they are in a setting that’s more comfortable for them.
• Leaders should consider shifting timing and/or medium to one that’s of the preference for the person who doesn’t have power.
• Explain why you’re asking about a topic and your intention for a conversation at the start. Providing context prevents people from having to guess at your agenda.
• Set a mutual agenda for a conversation by asking a question like, “In addition to this, what else should be part of our conversation today?”
• Establish a tone for open communication by radiating resilience. Words like these might help: “If I were in your shoes, I might be feeling frustrated or even resentful. If that’s how you’re feeling, I would understand completely. Please don’t hold back.”

Resources Mentioned

• Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life* by Jeff Wetzler

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)
• How to Grow From Your Errors, with Amy Edmondson (episode 663)

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Elaine Lin Hering is a facilitator, speaker, and writer who helps people build skills in communication, collaboration, and conflict management. She is a former Managing Partner of Triad Consulting Group and Lecturer on Law at Harvard Law School, specializing in dispute resolution, mediation, and negotiation. She is the author of Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Your Talent, and Live More Fully.

Those of us who have struggled to speak up have been told, “Just be more confident,” or, “Say this to get started.” As Elaine and I discuss in this conversation, there’s a larger context at play…and great power for both leaders and the people they lead, in unlearning silence.

Key Points

• Start with why. For change to actually happen, find something that matters more than the old behavior.
• What seems obvious to us isn’t always obvious to others. Connecting the dots for others demonstrates the meaning you’re making.
• Beginning a thought with, “From where I sit…” provides an entry point for what you need to say while also acknowledging different perspectives from others.
• Most people want to be helpful, but don’t always know how. Tell them how they can be helpful in the moment.
• Resistance is part of the process of influencing others. While it doesn’t feel good in the moment, it’s often the catalyst for creating movement.

Resources Mentioned

• Unlearning Silence: How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash Your Talent, and Live More Fully* by Elaine Lin Hering

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546)
• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 608)

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Sohee Jun is a leadership coach for female executives, leaders, founders, and entrepreneurs. She is also a TEDx speaker, Forbes Coaches Council member, keynote speaker, leadership development expert, and author. With over twenty years in the corporate world, she has worked with Fortune 500 companies, including those in the entertainment, production, and media sectors such as Netflix, Fox, and Disney.

In 2020, Sohee released her first book, Mommytracked: How to Take Authentic Risks and Find Success on Your Terms, with the goal of helping ambitious women tap into their inner core throughout the different phases of their lives. She’s now the author of a second book, The Aligned Mindset: Secrets of High-Achieving Women for Navigating Work and Life*.

In a world where still too few women are represented in senior leadership roles, many of us want to do whatever we can to support high-achieving women. In this conversation, Sohee and I explore what her research and experience indicates that leaders can do to better support women in their careers.

Key Points

• Leaders can support both women and men by framing the larger “why” or North Star. Providing context helps a point of focus to emerge.
• Do it afraid. Provide support to work through fearful situations with success.
• When supporting women in building confidence, help them recognize what they’ve already achieved.
• Normalize the discussion about financial literacy. Opening the door to dialogue around salary negotiation helps equalize the salary gap.
• One question can set the tone for better work and life integration. Leaders can proactively ask about boundaries.

Resources Mentioned

• The Aligned Mindset: Secrets of High-Achieving Women for Navigating Work and Life* by Sohee Jun

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Prioritize, with Christy Wright (episode 545)
• How to Protect Your Confidence, with Nate Zinsser (episode 573)
• The Path Towards Your Next Promotion, with Adam Bryant (episode 653)

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Michael McQueen has spent the past two decades helping organizations and leaders win the battle for relevance. He specializes in helping clients navigate uncertainty and stay one step ahead of change.

Michael is a bestselling author of nine books and a familiar face on the international conference circuit, having shared the stage with the likes of Bill Gates, Dr. John C. Maxwell, and Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. Having formerly been named Australia’s Keynote Speaker of the Year, he has been inducted into the Professional Speakers Hall of Fame. He is the author of Mindstuck: Mastering the Art of Changing Minds*.

There’s a lot of evidence that our minds would rather feel right than be right. How then, do you influence someone when they are really convinced of their position? In this conversation, Michael and I discuss the initial steps that help in changing people’s minds.

Key Points

• Our tendency is to convince to the inquiring mind, but we’ll do better if we speak to the instinctive mind first.
• Help others lessen loss and maintain dignity by preserving titles, language, and symbols in things that are new.
• Instead of trying to make an argument, ask a question that allows the other person to listen to themselves.
• Ask questions that clarify points of resistance or misunderstanding.
• Speak like you’re right, listen like you’re wrong.

Resources Mentioned

• Mindstuck: Mastering the Art of Changing Minds* by Michael McQueen

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)
• Four Habits That Derail Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 500)
• Three Practices for Thriving in Negotiations, with William Ury (episode 669)

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Lauren Wesley Wilson is a leading thought leader on media relations, diversity and inclusion, and crisis communications. At 25, she became the founder and CEO of ColorComm Corporation. Prior to that, Lauren worked as a communications strategist at a prestigious crisis communications firm in Washington, D.C.

Lauren has been featured in The Washington Post, Forbes, and People, as well as on MSNBC and CNBC, and more. She has been recognized by PR Week’s 50 Most Powerful in PR, Ad Age’s Women to Watch, and New York Women in Communications. She is the author of What Do You Need?: How Women of Color Can Take Ownership of Their Careers to Accelerate Their Path to Success*.

Many of us wish to be good allies in the workplace, especially to those who are underrepresented. Yet, what we assume that means isn’t always what’s most wanted or needed. In this conversation, Lauren and I discuss what leaders and peers can do to be better allies.

Key Points

• Instead of asking “How can I help?” consider, “What do you need?” That’s more likely to generate specific actions.
• Women of color feel like they are putting in tons of work into relationships with the majority culture, but it often feels unreciprocated.
• White folks think of allyship as speaking out against discrimination. Women of color say it’s way more critical to advocate for new opportunities.
• Tie allyship to economic goals: conference attendance, nominations for recognition, inclusion on high-profile committees, and position/promotion considerations.
• Make invitations to people of color to be at the table. This contributes more substantially than proclamations of support.
• When you make a mistake, apologize, own it, and move on. Don’t tell a story to explain yourself.

Resources Mentioned

• What Do You Need?: How Women of Color Can Take Ownership of Their Careers to Accelerate Their Path to Success* by Lauren Wesley Wilson

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way Managers Can be Champions for Justice, with Minda Harts (episode 552)
• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh (episode 615)

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Ethan Mollick is a professor of management at Wharton, specializing in entrepreneurship and innovation. His research has been featured in various publications, including Forbes, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal.

Through his writing, speaking, and teaching, Ethan has become one of the most prominent and provocative explainers of AI, focusing on the practical aspects of how these new tools for thought can transform our world. He’s the author of the popular One Useful Thing Substack and also the author of the book, Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI*.

Whether you’ve used it or not, you’ve heard that AI will transform how we work. Given how quickly the technology is changing, how do you start and, if you’ve started already, what’s the way to use it well? In this conversation, Ethan and I discuss the principles for using AI, even as the technology changes.

Key Points

• GPT-4 is already passing the bar examination in the 90th percentile, acing AP exams, and even passing the Certified Sommelier Examination.
• Always invite AI to the table. It’s may be helpful, frustrating, or useless — but understanding how it works will help you appreciate how it may help or threaten you.
• Being the “human in the loop” will help you catch where AI isn’t accurate or helpful. Zeroing in on areas where you are already an expert will help you appreciate where AI is useful and where its limitations emerge.
• Treat AI like a person, but tell it what kind of person it is. It’s helpful to think of AI like an alien person rather than a machine.
• Assume this is the worst AI you will ever use. Embracing that reality will help you stay open to possibilities on how you use AI do your work better.

Resources Mentioned

• Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI* by Ethan Mollick

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)
• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)
• How to Begin Leading Through Continuous Change, with David Rogers (episode 649)

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Mike Caulfield is a research scientist at the University of Washington’s Center for an Informed Public, where he studies the spread of online rumors and misinformation. He has taught thousands of teachers and students how to verify claims and sources through his workshops. His SIFT methodology is taught by hundreds of research libraries across North America, and a shorter version of SIFT instruction, developed with Google, has been taught in public libraries across the world.

His work on Web Literacy for Student Fact-Checkers, won the Merlot Award for best open learning resource in the ICT category. His work has been covered by The New York Times, the Chronicle of Higher Education, NPR, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and the MIT Technology Review. He is the author with Sam Wineburg of Verified: How to Think Straight, Get Duped Less, and Make Better Decisions about What to Believe Online*.

We’ve all seen something online that we thought was true, but turned out was a hoax. Annoying, but no big deal if it’s just an internet meme from a friend or family member. But what if what you find online isn’t at all what you thought and you make decisions or take action on it that affects your professional credibility? In this conversation, Mike and I discuss how to guard yourself from being duped.

Key Points

• Rather than asking, “Is this true?” the more useful question is, “Do I know what I’m looking at here?”
• The cheap signals many of us were trained to watch for (working links, attractive design, about pages, proper domains) are easy to replicate and no longer correlate to credibility.
• Phrase questions to search engines in neutral ways for less biased results. Instead of “Are soda taxes a good idea?” ask “Do soda taxes work?”
• While Wikipedia still has bias, it’s a far more credible source that many of us were taught — and a valuable source for a broad perspective of a topic or organization.
• Intelligent people often read vertically, to their detriment. The best fact-checkers read laterally by using the rest of the web to read the web.
• Watch for phrases like “sponsored content,” “brand partner,” “presented with,” “in partnership with,” “brought to you by,” “in association with,” or “hosted by.” These phrases signal advertisements.

Resources Mentioned

• Verified: How to Think Straight, Get Duped Less, and Make Better Decisions about What to Believe Online* by Mike Caulfield and Sam Wineburg

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)
• Get People Reading What You’re Sending, with Todd Rogers (episode 666)
• How to Enhance Your Credibility (audio course)

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Mike Massimino is a former NASA astronaut and a professor of mechanical engineering at Columbia University. He’s also the senior advisor for space programs at the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum. He was selected as an astronaut by NASA in 1996, and is the veteran of two space flights, the fourth and fifth Hubble Space Telescope servicing missions in 2002 and 2009.

Mike has made numerous television appearances, including a six-time recurring role as himself on the CBS hit comedy The Big Bang Theory. He has hosted Science Channel’s The Planets and its special Great American Eclipse. Mike is the author of the New York Times bestselling book Spaceman and now his newest book Moonshot: A NASA Astronaut’s Guide to Achieving the Impossible.

Almost every leader and organization invites people to speak up and make their voice head. As we all know, that doesn’t means it happens in practice. In this conversation, Mike and I discuss how leaders can set the tone for what’s said, and what’s not.

Key Points

• You’ll know when it’s time to speak up. Your cue is that hair-raising, sinking feeling in the moment of a high-stakes situation or the feeling of confusion in a less intense situation.
• Outsiders and rookies are often the most observant people in the team since they are hyper-aware of doing something new and noticing details a veteran may miss.
• It’s important to speak up when you see something wrong, but equally important is to speak up when you do something wrong. The only unforgivable sin at NASA is trying to cover something up.
• Your title or position may influence how others in the organization speak up (or don’t). When someone speaks up, saying “thank you” in the moment sets the tone for future dialogue.
• Reward speaking up with incentives. The Hubble Space Telescope servicing manager created challenges for people to speak up to reduce spacewalk time.

Resources Mentioned

• Moonshot: A NASA Astronaut’s Guide to Achieving the Impossible by Mike Massimino

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Start Managing Up, with Tom Henschel (episode 433)
• How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546)
• How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)

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Guy Kawasaki is the chief evangelist of Canva and the creator of Guy Kawasaki’s Remarkable People podcast. He is an executive fellow of the Haas School of Business (UC Berkeley), and adjunct professor at the University of New South Wales.

He was the chief evangelist of Apple and a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation. He has written Wise Guy, The Art of the Start 2.0, The Art of Social Media, Enchantment, and eleven other books. He’s now the author of Think Remarkable: 9 Paths to Transform Your Life and Make a Difference.

We all want to be surrounded by remarkable people in our work. A key piece to building relationships with them is recognizing when they come across our radar screens. In this conversation, Guy and I explore some of the key indicators for recognizing remarkable people.

Key Points

• Remarkable people reflect back to childhood. They recognize the experiences and people that contributed to their success.
• Remarkable people don’t find their passions, they develop them. They know that it’s rarely love at first sight.
• Remarkable people aren’t trying to save the world. They start with small and simple questions that scratch an itch.
• Remarkable people make themselves indispensable. They do the work nobody else wants to do which separates them from the pack.
• Remarkable people interact with a diverse group of people. They want to hear different perspectives and recognize the diversity makes them better.
• Remarkable people have overcome hardships. They’ve challenged themselves to find paths forward through the toughest situations.

Resources Mentioned

• Think Remarkable: 9 Paths to Transform Your Life and Make a Difference* by Guy Kawasaki

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)
• How to Strengthen Your Network, with Marissa King (episode 525)
• Help Your Team Embrace Growth Mindset, with Eduardo Briceño (episode 644)

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Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. A graduate of Harvard Business School and Yale College, he is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards.

He writes for The New Yorker and other publications, and is host emeritus of the Slate podcast How To! He’s the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection*.

We all know that we can’t lead if we don’t connect. The best leaders not only do this well, but they do it consistently with all kinds of people. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss what we can learn from the best communicators to get better ourselves.

Key Points

• Neural entrainment is when we click with someone and can finish each other’s sentences (and even our biological responses align). Supercommunicators trigger this consistently across many kinds of relationships.
• Supercommunicators aren’t always loudest or leading the conversation, but they ask more questions and adapt better in the moment.
• Make emotional replies easier for others. Instead of, “Do you have any hobbies?” ask, “If you could learn anything, what would it be?”
• Reciprocation of emotion is key for people to connect well. When another party is sharing something joyful, that’s an opportunity to share yourself.
• When something is more contentious, loop for understanding by (1) asking a deeper question, (2) repeating back in your own words, and (3) asking if you got it right.

Resources Mentioned

• Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection* by Charles Duhigg

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Where You May Be Provoking Anxiety, with Erica Dhawan (episode 528)
• The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560)
• How to Help Others Be Seen and Heard, with Scott Shigeoka (episode 654)

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William Ury is one of the world’s best-known experts on negotiation, and the co-author of Getting to Yes, the all-time bestselling book on negotiation with more than 15 million copies sold. He is co-founder of Harvard’s Program on Negotiation and has served as a negotiator in many of the toughest disputes of our times. He has taught negotiation to tens of thousands, and consulted for dozens of Fortune 500 companies, the White House, the State Department, and the Pentagon.

William has served as a negotiation adviser and mediator in conflicts ranging from Kentucky wildcat coal mine strikes to wars in the Middle East, Colombia, Korea, and Ukraine. He is an internationally sought-after speaker and has two popular TEDx talks with millions of views. He’s also the author of Possible: How We Survive (and Thrive) in an Age of Conflict*.

We often assume that conflict is bad, but William says we actually need more conflict, not less. In this conversation, we explore three practices that will help you thrive in the toughest negotiations. And no surprise — the biggest obstacle in getting what we want is almost always ourselves.

Key Points

• We need more conflict, not less. The best decisions often emerge from a negotiation.
• The biggest obstacle in negotiation is ourselves. Pauses and silence prevent us from reacting without thinking.
• Zoom in to examine the interests that are behind your stated positions. This often elicits meaningful steps.
• Rarely are conflicts about surface issues. Uncovering your deeper motivations will help you approach negotiation more productively.
• Negotiation doesn’t only happen at one table. Zoom out to at least two other tables: the internal negotiations of both sides.

Resources Mentioned

• Possible: How We Survive (and Thrive) in an Age of Conflict* by William Ury

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Negotiate As If Your Life Depended On It, with Chris Voss (episode 262)
• How to Find Confidence in Conflict, with Kwame Christian (episode 380)
• How to Negotiate When Others Have Power, with Kwame Christian (episode 416)

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Scott Osman is the founder and CEO of the 100 Coaches Agency and co-designer with Jacquelyn Lane of their proprietary curation process and the company’s relationship-first philosophy. In his role as CEO, he establishes the vision for the company, leads partnerships and business development, and serves as a leading light of the 100 Coaches Community, which he cofounded with Marshall Goldsmith in 2016.

Jacquelyn Lane is the president of the 100 Coaches Agency. She has been with the agency since its founding and is a critical pillar of the 100 Coaches Community. Jacquelyn comes to the world of executive coaching through her previous roles in the energy industry and lifelong commitment to improving the lives of all people by elevating the quality of leadership. Along with Scott and Marshall Goldsmith, she is co-author of Becoming Coachable: Unleashing the Power of Executive Coaching to Transform Your Leadership and Life*.

Perhaps you’ve been considering working with a coach, but how do you start? In this episode Scott, Jacquelyn, and I discuss when to consider coaching, how it might help, and the best way to begin. Plus, we explore the most helpful mindsets to help you get the most out of coaching.

Key Points

• Leaders who create value at moments of inflection really need a coach.
• Two common reasons leaders seek coaching: (1) getting support with an issue that’s tough to navigate and (2) accelerating their leadership growth.
• Interview three coach candidates and utilize those interactions to discover different ways that you may reach your goals.
• Coaching fees should reflect the value the organization receives from the coaching. Most high-end coaching is funded by the organization.
• Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. To speed up, a coach may invite you to slow down in the immediate short-term.

Resources Mentioned

• Becoming Coachable: Unleashing the Power of Executive Coaching to Transform Your Leadership and Life* by Scott Osman and Jacquelyn Lane

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)
• How to Help People Engage in Growth, with Whitney Johnson (episode 576)
• The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)

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Robert Sutton is an organizational psychologist and professor of Management Science and Engineering in the Stanford Engineering School. He has given keynote speeches to more than 200 groups in 20 countries and served on numerous scholarly editorial boards. Bob’s work has been featured in The New York Times, BusinessWeek, The Atlantic, Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, and The Washington Post.

He is a frequent guest on various television and radio programs, and has written seven books and two edited volumes, including the bestsellers The No A-hole Rule, Good Boss, Bad Boss, and Scaling Up Excellence. He is the co-author with Huggy Rao of The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder*.

We’ve all worked with someone who seemed just a bit oblivious. None of us want to be that kind of leader. In this conversation, Bob and I discuss key strategies for how to stop it and also prevent it.

Key Points

• Privilege spares you hassles, but has a cost. You risk cluelessness about troubles in the organization.
• Power and prestige can cause leaders to focus more on themselves, less on others, and act like the rules don’t apply to them.
• An antidote to oblivious leadership is less transmission and more reception. Measure two behaviors: (1) how much the leader talks vs. others in interactions and (2) the ratio of questions the leader asks vs. statements the leader makes.
• Either manage by walking out of the room or get into the details with ride alongs, direct help, and doing the work with folks. Be cautious about “managing by walking around” getting ritualistic.
• Hierarchy is inevitable and useful. The most effective leaders flex it by knowing when to collaborate and when to direct.

Resources Mentioned

• The Friction Project: How Smart Leaders Make the Right Things Easier and the Wrong Things Harder* by Robert Sutton and Huggy Rao

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)
• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)
• How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

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Todd Rogers is a professor of public policy at Harvard University, where he has won teaching awards for the past seven consecutive years. He is a behavioral scientist and the cofounder of the Analyst Institute and EveryDay Labs. His opinion pieces have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and Politico, among other outlets. He’s co-author with Jessica Lasky-Fink of Writing for Busy Readers: Communicate More Effectively in the Real World*.

You probably only skimmed that email I spent an hour writing. And let’s be equally honest the other way — I only skimmed the document your team worked on most of last week. This is the reality of how we all read in a busy world. On this episode, Tom and I discuss how to write so that people actually read what you send.

Key Points

• Virtually everyone is a writer in some significant way: emails, text messages, memos, social media posts, and many other daily communications.
• While your writing is important to you, the audience is often trying to spend as little time as possible processing what you’ve sent. Virtually everyone skims, especially in the context of work.
• Using fewer words make it more likely that people will engage with the message at all, much less taken action.
• Addressing fewer ideas often helps people engage better. Studies show better results for calls to action when fewer ideas are presented in a single communication.
• Asking busy readers for more can cause them to do less. Be mindful about the number of requests you are making in writing and eliminate those which aren’t essential.

Resources Mentioned

• Writing for Busy Readers: Communicate More Effectively in the Real World* by Todd Rogers and Jessica Lasky-Fink
• AI for Busy Readers (transform your writing in real-time using the science of Writing for Busy Readers)

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Surprising Truth About Influencing Others, with Daniel Pink (episode 84)
• Improve Your Writing With Practical Typography, with Matthew Butterick (episode 145)
• Make Your Reading More Meaningful, with Sönke Ahrens (episode 564)

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Randelle Lenior is a vice president at Fidelity Investments and a graduate of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this conversation, Randelle and I discuss how to utilize LinkedIn in order to showcase your team externally.

Key Points

• Start small. Begin by posting about job opportunities or sharing articles and resources that will be useful for others.
• Even though you are also representing your organization, the relationships you build are yours and stay with you throughout your career.
• Establishing a larger “why” for a LinkedIn presence is important and invites others to want to join in to support the vision.
• Ask permission and allow team members to easily opt out — and people who don’t engage initially may decide to later.
• People are going to look you up anyway. By having a presence on LinkedIn, you set the narrative of what they perceive about you.

Related Episodes

• How to Write a Killer LinkedIn Profile, with Brenda Bernstein (episode 285)
• How to Get Noticed on LinkedIn, with Stephen Hart (episode 495)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)

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Marcus Collins is an award-winning marketer and cultural translator. He is a recipient of Advertising Age’s 40 Under 40 award and Crain’s Business 40 Under 40 award and a recent inductee to the American Advertising Federation’s Hall of Achievement. He has worked for several top advertising agencies, and his strategies and creative contributions have led to the success of Budweiser’s Made in America music festival, the launch of the Brooklyn Nets (“Hello Brooklyn!”), and State Farm’s “Cliff Paul” campaign, among others. Prior to his advertising tenure, Marcus worked on iTunes + Nike sport music initiatives at Apple and ran digital strategy for Beyoncé.

He is a marketing professor at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan, and faculty director for the school’s executive education partnership with Google. Marcus delivers keynote talks across the globe for companies and conferences such as the Cannes Lions International Festival for Creativity, SXSW, Social Media Week, Adcolor, Hyper Island, TEDx, and Talks at Google. He is the author of For the Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, and Who We Want to Be*.

Whether you’re in a sales and marketing role or not, every leader needs to appreciate the psychology of why people buy. Often we assume people buy because of what the product or service provides. But as Marcus and I discuss in this episode, people often buy because of who they are.

Key Points

• For getting people to move, nothing is more powerful than aligning with culture.
• Anaïs Nin said, “We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.”
• Audiences buy because of what the product is, but congregations buy because of who they are.
• Many leaders assume people love their brand — but it’s not really about the brand, it’s about how people view themselves.
• Begin with examining your own thinking and language regarding customer relationships and transactions. How you view these influences the actions of others.

Resources Mentioned

• For the Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, and Who We Want to Be* by Marcus Collins

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Start With Why, with Simon Sinek (episode 223)
• Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)
• The Way to Earn Attention, with Raja Rajamannar (episode 521)

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Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, where she studies people and organizations seeking to make a positive difference in the world through the work they do. She has pioneered the concept of psychological safety for over twenty years and is recognized as number one on the Thinkers50 global ranking of management thinkers. She also received that organization’s Breakthrough Idea Award in 2019 and Talent Award in 2017. In 2019 she was first on HR Magazine’s list of the 20 Most Influential International Thinkers in Human Resources.

Her prior book, The Fearless Organization, explains psychological safety and has been translated into fifteen languages. In addition to publishing several books and numerous articles in top academic outlets, Amy has written for, or her work has been covered by, media such as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Financial Times, and many others. Her TED Talk on teaming has been viewed more than 3 million times. She is the author of Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well*.

Many leaders espouse the value of talking about our failures. Yet, failure is a threat to our ego, so it turns out we’re better at learning from the failures of others than we are from our own. In this conversation, Amy and I explore how to do a better job of growing when we’re in the wrong.

Key Points

• Failure is a threat to our ego. As a result, we’re more likely to learn from the failures of others than from our own failures.
• It’s hard to learn if you already know. If you can frame situations more helpfully, it can substantially influence your ability to grow from being wrong.
• Disrupt the inevitable emotional response to being wrong by asking this: how was I feeling before this happened?
• Challenge yourself by considering if the content of your thoughts are useful for your goal. A key question: what other interpretation of the situation is possible? Pro tip: start with the phrase, “Just for fun…”
• Choose to say or do something that moves you closer to your goals. This question will help: what is going to best help me achieve my goals? Consider shifting from me to we and now to later.

Resources Mentioned

• Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well* by Amy Edmondson

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• The Value of Being Uncomfortable, with Neil Pasricha (episode 448)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)

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Joan Garry is an internationally recognized champion for the nonprofit sector and a highly sought after executive coach for CEOs at some of the largest organizations. Joan’s firm offers high-end strategic advisory services with a unique combination of coaching and management consulting. She is the founder of the Nonprofit Leadership Lab, a worldclass online educational membership organization for board and staff leaders of small nonprofits.

As a columnist for the Chronicle of Philanthropy, contributor to Harvard Business Review and to Forbes, Joan is a preeminent media spokesperson and thought leader on the role of the nonprofit sector in our society and is a sought after voice on issues facing the sector today. Joan was previously executive director of GLAAD, one of the largest gay rights organizations in the United States. She is the author of Joan Garry’s Guide to Nonprofit Leadership: Because the World is Counting on You*.

When thinking about executives interacting with boards, the first thought I used to have was that an executive’s job is keep the board happy. In contrast, the most effective executives are intentional about creating a for framework for shared leadership. In this episode, Joan and I discuss key lessons from the non-profit world to help align better with your board.

Key Points

• The relationship between an executive director and board chair in one of the most critical ones for an organization. Shared leadership provides more opportunity today than hierarchy.
• Many “type A” people are in leadership roles. Getting clear on who decides what is critical because “type A” people don’t tend to operate well with ambiguity.
• Focus on getting clarity and aligned on one thing at a time to avoid overwhelming the decision-making progress. Use a recent example as a catalyst to begin this process.
• Executive directors should encourage boards to think and work at altitude so they get beyond only doing risk management.
• It’s not enough to expect a board chair or member to want to “give back” — more important is to understand why they want to give back to this organization specifically.

Resources Mentioned

• Joan Garry’s Guide to Nonprofit Leadership: Because the World is Counting on You* by Joan Garry
• Nonprofit Leadership Lab

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Involve Stakeholders in Decisions, with Eric Pliner (episode 586)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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David Hutchens helps leaders find and tell their stories. He works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations.

He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations, including NASA, Paypal, Loreal Paris, Cisco, Walmart, Google, FedEx — and he’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses*, Story Dash*, and The Leadership Story Deck*. He is the co-creator with longtime friend of the show Susan Gerke of the GO Team program.

Many of us have heard that we should be vulnerable and, at least occasionally, share a story about ourselves. But how do you tell a story about yourself without making the entire interaction about you? In this episode, David and I explore how to best utilize a personal story to help the organization move forward.

Key Points

• While leaders more often tell stories about others, a personal story can be very powerful for relationship building.
• An effective, personal story is 2-3 minutes.
• Telling a story about yourself needs to have a leadership point. Be clear on the “so what?” once the story concludes.
• Even if you don’t quite capture all the emotion, say the word out loud that describes the emotion you want to convey.
• Share your stories with others to get objective insight to tighten your message.

Resources Mentioned

• Leadership Story Deck by David Hutchens (use code CFL24 for a limited-time discount)
• To receive a free copy of the Story Canvas, David invites listeners to reach out to him directly via david@davidhutchens.com

Related Episodes

• Ignite Change Through Storytelling, with Nancy Duarte and Patti Sanchez (episode 268)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)
• What Vulnerable Leadership Sounds Like, with Jacob Morgan (episode 648)

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Robert “Cujo” Teschner is a retired F-15 / F-22 fighter pilot. He is also a former F-15 Weapons School Instructor, F-22 Squadron Commander, senior Joint Staff officer, and combat veteran. He holds advanced degrees in Operational Art and Science and National Security Strategy and has extensive experience in tactical planning and execution, and organizational leadership. From 2004 to 2006, he served as the US Air Force’s expert in post-mission debriefing, the methodology used by high-performing military teams to self-correct and improve continuously.

Cujo retired immediately after his promotion to full Colonel due to complications from cancer-related care and started an international business consulting practice based in St. Louis, MO. His company is called VMax Group. VMax Group’s mission is to teach, inspire, and nurture teams on how to really “team”, making work more fulfilling, and making teams much more effective. He is the author of Debrief to Win: How America’s Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership…and How You Can, Too!*

Many of us recognize we could get better at reflecting on our team’s work, but we rarely get beyond what went well and what didn’t. One of the best ways to stop making the same mistakes is to look at the truth of what’s already happened, and learn from it. In this conversation, Cujo and I look at the value of a debrief and how to bring that practice into your organization.

Key Points

• Saying, “We learned a lot of important lessons today,” doesn’t actually prove that any learning has happened.
• The context of military and civilian debriefs are both different, but the stakes are still high in both venues.
• A debrief is not about blame or shame. Instead, it’s an affirming, positive experience that builds future leaders.
• A key benefit of regular debriefs is to institutionalize the process of challenging conversations. Psychological safety is critical for this to happen well.
• Objectives should be measurable, achievable, and time-constrained. Debriefs should focus on the objectives and the decisions that were made to meet those objectives.
• Be cautious about outsourcing debriefing to external facilitators. An effective debrief should be led by someone who has participated in the mission or project.

Resources Mentioned

• Debrief to Win: How America’s Top Guns Practice Accountable Leadership…and How You Can, Too! by Robert “Cujo” Teschner
• Robert “Cujo” Teschner’s website

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)

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Jen Byyny is a senior director of product design in health-tech and a graduate of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. In this conversation, Jen and I discuss how to handle change in your career when things keep shifting around you.

Key Points

• It’s about people, not product. When lots of change is happening, come back to relationships and communication.
• Pay attention to the people who support you and the ones you look forward to working with. They will be your champions through whatever happens.
• Provide space for grace during times of change. Others need it as much as you do.
• It’s helpful to have people in your corner who are pulling for you but who are not tied to the politics or emotion of the situation.

Related Episodes

• The Power of Weak Connections, with David Burkus (episode 347)
• How to Win the Long Game When the Short-Term Seems Bleak, with Dorie Clark (episode 550)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)

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Frances Frei is a professor at Harvard Business School. Her research investigates how leaders create the context for organizations and individuals to thrive by designing for excellence in strategy, operations, and culture. She regularly works with companies embarking on large-scale change and organizational transformation, including embracing diversity and inclusion as a lever for improved performance. In 2017, Frances served as Uber’s first senior vice president of leadership and strategy to help the company navigate its very public crisis in leadership and culture.

Her partner Anne Morriss and her are the authors of Uncommon Service and The Unapologetic Leader’s Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You. They are also hosts of Fixable, a leadership advice podcast from the TED Audio Collective, and they are recognized by Thinkers50 as among the world’s most influential business thinkers. Their newest book is Move Fast & Fix Things: The Trusted Leader’s Guide to Solving Hard Problems*.

A lot of us assume that going fast is reckless. There are certainly times when that’s the case, but it’s also true that leaders going too slow at the wrong time can make things worse. In this conversation, Frances and I discuss how to do a better job of moving quickly when it’s time to address the toughest problems.

Key Points

• Many of us believe that going fast is reckless and going slow is righteous. While there are times that is true, there are many examples where it’s not.
• The fastest way to speed up your company is to empower more people to make more decisions.
• Dare to be bad at something. Deciding what not to address allows you to go faster at what you’re best at.
• Two key elements of completing work are work-in-progress and cycle time. Most leaders address cycle time first and miss the more substantial work-in-progress opportunities.
• Create a way to fast-track projects that become important and build this into the culture of the organization.

Resources Mentioned

• Move Fast & Fix Things: The Trusted Leader’s Guide to Solving Hard Problems by Frances Frei and Anne Morriss

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Turn Followers Into Leaders, with David Marquet (episode 241)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)
• How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)

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David Burkus is the bestselling author of four books about business and leadership which have won multiple awards and been translated into dozens of languages. His insights on leadership and teamwork have been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, USAToday, Fast Company, the Financial Times, and many other media outlets.

Since 2017, David has been ranked multiple times as one of the world’s top business thought leaders. As a sought-after international speaker, his TED Talk has been viewed over two million times. He has worked with leaders from organizations across all industries, including PepsiCo, Fidelity, Clorox, Adobe, and NASA. He’s the author of Best Team Ever!: The Surprising Science of High-Performing Teams*.

There are many things that help teams work well together, but perhaps you haven’t thought of this one: clarity. Knowing what is being done and who’s doing it often helps a team achieve more. In this conversation, David and I discuss the practical steps to surface more clarity and drive better performance.

Key Points

• Casting a leadership vision is important, but insufficient. It’s not helpful to expect a team to figure out roles and responsibilities on their own.
• Teams work best when they understand how each individual works best. Clarity increased performance.
• Hold huddles using these three questions: (1) What did I just complete? (2) What am I focused on next? and (3) What is blocking my progress?
• Consider communicating in bursts to allow for people to retreat into less interrupted time for deeper work.
• Establish priorities and consistently make those priorities clear so they are obvious and apparent to the team.

Resources Mentioned

• Best Team Ever!: The Surprising Science of High-Performing Teams* by David Burkus

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• An Astronaut’s Guide to Life On Earth, with Chris Hadfield (episode 149)
• How to Make Deep Work Happen, with Cal Newport (episode 233)
• How Great Teams Find Purpose, with David Burkus (episode 481)

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Heather Younger is an experienced international keynote speaker, best-selling author, CEO, and Founder of Employee Fanatix. Known as The Employee Whisperer, Heather harnesses humor, warmth, and an instant relatability to engage and uplift audiences and inspire them into action.

She is a Certified Diversity Professional, certified in Emotional and Social Intelligence and DiSC, and is also the author of three books. Her previous best-selling book, The Art of Caring Leadership: How Leading with Heart Uplifts Teams and Organizations, was praised for offering powerful insights for developing authentic, thoughtful, and purposeful leaders and change-makers. She’s the author of The Art of Active Listening: How People at Work Feel Heard, Valued, and Understood*.

When you know how to listen, people will share more. We may or may not always be able to resolve every concern, but we can be sure others are heard. In this conversation, Heather and I discuss how we can shift from listening for what we want to hear towards listening for what we need to learn.

Key Points

• Some issues can only be resolved through better listening. That alone makes this a critical skill for leaders.
• When you know how to listen, people will bring things to you. Listen for not what you want to hear but what you want to learn.
• Listening is not just about what’s been said, but also about what is seen. Get beyond simply, “What I hear you saying is…”
• Some leaders have a fear about the direction that a response might take a conversation. Remember that often people first and foremost want to be heard, regardless of what happens next.
• Nobody is ready to listen at every moment. Taking time to center yourself for a conversation in a few minutes or later in the day can be helpful for both parties.

Resources Mentioned

• The Art of Active Listening: How People at Work Feel Heard, Valued, and Understood* by Heather Younger
• Art of Active Listening Certification

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way to Have Conversations That Matter, with Celeste Headlee (episode 344)
• Four Habits That Derail Listening, with Oscar Trimboli (episode 500)
• How to Help Others Be Seen and Heard, with Scott Shigeoka (episode 654)

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Sheila Heen is the Thaddeus R. Beal Professor of Practice at Harvard Law School, a Deputy Director of the Harvard Negotiation Project, and a founder of Triad Consulting Group. She often works with executive teams to engage conflict productively, repair working relationships, and implement change in complex organizations.

She has published articles in The New York Times and the Harvard Business Review and appeared on Oprah, CNBC’s Power Lunch, and NPR. She is coauthor along with Douglas Stone of The New York Times bestseller Thanks for the Feedback and also now, in its third edition, co-author with Douglas Stone and Bruce Patton of the iconic bestseller, Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most*.

When our intentions are good, it’s hard to appreciate how we could have had such negative impact on someone else. It’s equally challenging to navigate a tough conversation when someone else’s words or actions have wronged us, even if that’s not what they intended. In this conversation, Sheila and I discuss how to shift just a bit to help our difficult conversations go better.

Key Points

• Intent does not equal impact.
• It’s a mistake to assume that we know the other party’s intentions.
• It’s a mistake to assume that good intentions erase bad impact.
• Prevent the first mistake by attempting to separate intent from impact. Use these three questions:

1. Actions: What did the other person actually say or do?
2. Impact: What was the impact of this on me?
3. Assumption: Based on this impact, what assumption am I making about what the other person intended?

• To present the second mistake, listen first for feelings before sharing intent. It’s helpful also to reflect on your own intent, which may not always be as pure as initially recognized.

Resources Mentioned

• Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most* by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• How to Begin Difficult Conversations About Race, with Kwame Christian (episode 594)
• How to Deal With Passive-Aggressive People, Amy Gallo (episode 595)

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Scott Shigeoka is an internationally recognized curiosity expert, speaker, and author. He is known for translating research into strategies that promote positive well-being and connected relationships around the globe, including at the UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center and through his popular courses at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scott implements his curiosity practices with leaders in the public sector, Fortune 500 companies, Hollywood, media organizations, education institutions, and small businesses. He is the author of Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World*.

Often we think about curiosity as a way to get information. And yes, it does do that, but there’s a much bigger opportunity that many leaders miss — taking the next step with curiosity to actually help connect better with others. In this episode, Scott and I highlight four phrases that will help you do that better.

Key Points

• It’s a mistake to limit the purpose of curiosity to only information gathering. Deep curiosity can be one of the best ways to create connection.
• Saying, “I don’t know,” may elicit fear in a lot of us, but leaders who can do this are often perceived and more competent in their work.
• The invitation to, “Tell me more,” is a way to respond to a bid from someone for attention that opens to door to feeling seen and heard.
• Even if you don’t literally say the words, “I understand that you’re more than your job,” making that clear in your conversations helps limit work-life conflict and uncovers better ways to support others.
• We tend to have a bias in the workplace for the people who traditionally have the “answers.” Asking, “Who else?” opens the door to surfacing the best ideas, regardless of who they originate with.

Resources Mentioned

• Seek: How Curiosity Can Transform Your Life and Change the World* by Scott Shigeoka
• 4 Phrases That Build a Culture of Curiosity by Scott Shigeoka

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Be Present, with Dave Crenshaw (episode 511)
• How to Inspire More Curiosity, with Shannon Minifie (episode 520)
• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)

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Adam Bryant is Senior Managing Director and Partner at the ExCo Group, where he works with hundreds of senior leaders and high-potential executives. As the creator and former author of the iconic “Corner Office” column in The New York Times, Adam has mastered the art of distilling real-world lessons from his hundreds of interviews and turning them into practical tools, presentations, and exercises to help companies deepen their leadership benches and strengthen their teams.

Adam works with executive leadership teams to help drive their transformation strategies, based on a best-practices framework he developed for his widely praised book, The CEO Test. He’s also the author of The Leap to Leader: How Ambitious Managers Make the Jump to Leadership*.

Many of us have our career trajectories planned out in our minds. While we know it’s not going to happen exactly the way we’ve planned, it’s still jarring when we find ourselves on a different path — or presented with a different opportunity — than we anticipated. In this episode, Adam and I discuss the mindsets and actions that will help you take the next step in your career.

Key Points

• There can be a large gap between how assertive you are and how people perceive you.
• Think about your career like a pyramid — building a strong foundation across many areas of practice. Bloom where you are planted.
• Don’t just solve the problem your manager tells you to solve. Find (and start solving) the bigger problem that isn’t even on the radar screen of senior leadership.
• Use these words: “I need your help.” When seeking advice in the context of someone that might mentor you, make your ask specific and then loop back to share what you did with their advice.
• When someone asks how you are, instead of just saying “fine,” tell a story about what you’re working on.
• Peer relationships are a common blind spot. Early promotions may come from your manager, but higher level promotions comes moreso from the relationships with your peers.

Resources Mentioned

• The Leap to Leader: How Ambitious Managers Make the Jump to Leadership* by Adam Bryant

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Nail a Job Transition, with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy (episode 555)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide*.

Listener Questions

• Tony asked our opinion on his plan to have the team provide feedback to each other directly.
• Lean wondered about alternatives to the nine box talent mapping framework that some organizations use.
• Qasim noted that leadership can sometimes feel thankless and asked if we had any rituals to help minimize this.

Resources Mentioned

• FeedForward: Coaching for Behavioral Change by Marshall Goldsmith
• What Is the 9-Box Model? by Brian Anderson
• Warning: This Is Not Your Grandfather’s Talent Planning featuring Kim Scott

Related Episodes

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• How to Process Your 360 Feedback, with Tom Henschel (episode 341)
• Your Leadership Motive, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 505)

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Kirstin Ferguson is a company director, columnist, keynote speaker, and executive coach. Beginning her career as an officer in the Royal Australian Air Force, Kirstin has held roles that have included chief executive officer of an international consulting firm, and acting chair and deputy chair of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. She has sat on boards of both publicly-listed and privately-listed companies for more than a decade.

Kirstin has a PhD in leadership and in 2021 was named one of Thinkers50’s top thinkers to watch. In 2023, she was appointed a Member of the Order of Australia for her significant service to business and gender equality. She writes a weekly column on leadership and work in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, and is also a contributor to the Australian Financial Review and to Forbes. She is the author of Head & Heart: The Art of Modern Leadership*.

It’s often apparent when someone else doesn’t a read a room, but much harder to see it in ourselves. In this conversation, Kirstin and I discuss how we can do a better job of either literally or figuratively reading the room. Plus, we explore several of the actions leaders can take to do a better job at being more proactive at moving beyond their own perspective.

Key Points

• Memory is different than perception. A study by Adrian de Groot shows that chess grandmasters reply more on the former for reading things quickly.
• Perception is an ongoing process vs. something any of us arrive at.
• A study of medical residents shows four ways we tend to approach situations: stalled, fixated, adaptive, or vagabonds. Vagabonds in particular look at a wide range of possibilities, but don’t fully explore or rule out paths forward.
• Zoom out to seek broad input. That’s especially important when the stakes are high. Also important is to get perspective outside of your industry. Reading books from different disciplines is one starting point.
• Leaders needs to also recognize that people in the room are reading you as well. There’s an element of partnership that shapes how the room moves forward.

Resources Mentioned

• Head & Heart: The Art of Modern Leadership by Kirstin Ferguson
• Head & Heart Leader Scale by Kirstin Ferguson

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Start Seeing Around Corners, with Rita McGrath (episode 430)
• Leadership in the Midst of Chaos, with Jim Mattis (episode 440)
• The Way to Get Noticed by Key Stakeholders, with Daphne E. Jones (episode 614)

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Emily Field is a partner at McKinsey & Company. She works with leaders to shape data-driven organizational strategies designed to achieve business objectives, establish talent management as a distinctive advantage, and secure the human resources function as a driver of business value.

Emily has worked with companies across industries, leading initiatives to transform the way organizations work. She puts particular emphasis on helping to establish a talent-first approach, instilling a high-performance culture, and adopting effective people-analytics approaches. She is the co-author along with Bill Schaninger and Bryan Hancock of Power to the Middle: Why Managers Hold the Keys to the Future of Work*.

As anybody who’s worked in middle management can attest, it’s one of the hardest jobs you’ll ever have. Too often we take middle management for granted, but organizations that learn how to better support middle managers can leverage their power and expertise to do a lot of good. In this conversation, Emily and I highlight the challenges of middle management, the unique value the middle managers bring to organizations, and the steps senior leaders can take to better support middle managers.

Key Points

• Middle managers often have less power and control than the people who report to them. This results in them not feeling like they are set up for success.
• The “player-coach” model of managers doing individual contributor work can be useful, but it’s critical for organizations to be mindful that the work is uniquely suited for a manager to do.
• Rather than promoting the best middle managers out of their roles, promote from within. Reward top middle managers who decide to make their positions a destination, not just a waypoint.
• As technology and AI changed the nature of work, middle managers are uniquely qualified to know how to best rebundle jobs and redistribute talent.
• A key question for senior leadership to answer: What do we want middle managers to be doing?

Resources Mentioned

• Power to the Middle: Why Managers Hold the Keys to the Future of Work* by Emily Field, Bill Schaninger, and Bryan Hancock

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Multiply Your Impact, with Liz Wiseman (episode 554)
• How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
• The Questions to Help Figure Out Hybrid and Remote Work, with Jim Harter (episode 646)

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David Rogers is the world’s leading expert on digital transformation, a member of the faculty at Columbia Business School, and the author of five books. His previous landmark bestseller, The Digital Transformation Playbook, was the first book on digital transformation and put the topic on the map.

David has helped companies around the world transform their business for the digital age, working with senior leaders at many of the largest corporations and he’s been featured in The New York Times, The Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Economist. In his newest book, The Digital Transformation Roadmap*, David tackles the barriers behind the 70% of businesses that fail in their own digital efforts and offers a five-step roadmap to rebuild any organization for continuous digital change.

Most of us have heard that leading change requires highlighting a problem, deciding on a clear vision, and then cascading that vision down. In this conversation, David and I discuss how those actions alone often result failed outcomes. Instead, we highlight what a shared vision really is and how we can do a better job of helping the entire organization respond better to change.

Key Points

• Most digital transformations fail because they focus too much on technology and not enough on the actual organizational challenges.
• Selling a problem is negative urgency. It’s important as a component of change, but insufficient alone. Successful change leaders also embrace positive urgency.
• A north star helps leaders and their organizations get clear on the “why” instead of simply the “what.” Once defined, thoughtful debate on measurement brings alignment and empowerment.
• It’s a mistake for vision to only come from the top. Vision should exist at every level.
• Avoid thinking about vision as cascading down. If anything, vision should be cascade up. How conversation happens at each juncture will define how well this works — or doesn’t.

Resources Mentioned

• The Digital Transformation Roadmap* by David Rogers
• The Digital Transformation Playbook* by David Rogers
• David Rogers on Digital newsletter

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Pivot Quickly, with Steve Blank (episode 476)
• Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)
• Doing Better Than Zero Sum-Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641)

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Jacob Morgan is a trained futurist and one of the world’s leading authorities on leadership, the future of work, and employee experience. He speaks in front of tens of thousands of people each year and his content is seen over a million times annually. He is the best-selling author of five books: The Future Leader, The Employee Experience Advantage, The Future of Work, and The Collaborative Organization. He speaks at over 50 conferences a year including TED Academy which is one of the largest TED events in the world.

Jacob provides advisory and thought leadership services to organizations around the world. He has created tons of educational videos and articles found at Great Leadership With Jacob Morgan and host of the Great Leadership with Jacob Morgan podcast. He’s the author of the new book, Leading With Vulnerability: How to Unlock Your Greatest Superpower to Transform Yourself, Your Team, and Your Organization.

Most of us have heard that we should show vulnerability, but we don’t necessary know how to do this in the workplace. In addition, many leaders mistakenly show vulnerability without connecting it back to leadership. In this episode, Jacob and I explore where leaders go wrong, discuss how to do better, and demonstrate exactly what real vulnerability sounds like.

Key Points

• Vulnerability + Leadership = Vulnerable Leadership. While this equation may seem obvious, many leaders mistakingly lean into vulnerability without also articulating leadership.
• Vulnerability without leadership can land awkwardly and potentially calls to question your credibility as a leader.
• Go beyond just admitting a mistake; share what was learned from that mistake. In the same way, talk about personal challenges for the purpose of connecting, creating trust, and relating to others.
• Ask yourself this question as a starting point for ensuring you are also leading: “What’s my reason for sharing what I’m about to share?”
• Vulnerability for leaders is not the same as it is for everybody else.

Resources Mentioned

• Leading With Vulnerability: How to Unlock Your Greatest Superpower to Transform Yourself, Your Team, and Your Organization by Jacob Morgan
• Great Leadership With Jacob Morgan

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)
• How to Use Power Responsibly, with Vanessa Bohns (episode 551)
• The Four Storytelling Mistakes Leaders Make, with David Hutchens (episode 553)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide*.

Listener Questions

• Lisa asks about the best ways to hold others accountable when you don’t have positional authority.
• John wonders about our perspective on dealing with narcissists in the workplace.
• Patrick is curious how we might (or might not) mediate a conflict between two employees.
• Priya notices the focus on underperforms in organizations and asks how this tendency might get shifted a bit.

Resources Mentioned

• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People* by Stephen R. Covey
• The Success Factor* by Ruth Gotian
• The 6 Types of Working Genius* by Patrick Lencioni

Related Episodes

• How to Handle a Boss Who’s a Jerk, with Tom Henschel (episode 164)
• How to Influence Many Stakeholders, with Andy Kaufman (episode 240)
• How to Benefit From Conflict, with Susan Gerke (episode 263)
• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)
• How to Help Team Members Find the Right Work, with Patrick Lencioni (episode 610)
• How to Start Better With Peers, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 635)

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Jim Harter is Chief Scientist for the Workplace at Gallup. He has led more than 1,000 studies of workplace effectiveness, including the largest ongoing meta-analysis of human potential and business unit performance. He’s the bestselling author of 12: The Elements of Great Managing, Wellbeing: The Five Essential Elements, Wellbeing at Work and the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller It’s the Manager.

Jim has also published articles in many prominent business and academic journals. He’s also the author now of Gallup’s book with Jim Clifton titled Culture Shock: An unstoppable force is changing how we work and live. Gallup’s solution to the biggest leadership issue of our time*.

Virtually every professional team is navigating some aspect of return to office and how that works best for their organization. In this conversation, Jim and I highlight the key findings from Gallup that have emerged in the data since the pandemic started. Plus, we explore the questions that managers can ask in order help this transition work better for everyone.

Key Points

Managers should consider these key questions to help employees and teams move towards smart autonomy:

• Which parts of your job can you do best at home?
• Which parts of your job can you do best at the office?
• When have you created exceptional value for our customers?
• When do you feel most connected to our organization’s culture?

In addition:

• Less than 5% of people in the United States worked from home in 2019. Today the number is six times larger and nearly seven in 10 full-time employees in the United States prefer some type of remote work arrangement.
• Number of days in the office is important, but matters less than other factors. Most associated with high levels of employee engagement is the practice of a work team deciding together (the option companies used the least).
• Splitters and blenders represent two different ways of approaching work and the populate tends to divide equally on this preference (even across generations). Knowing where people land will help engage them better in the workplace.
• Managers account for 70% of the variance in team engagement. A key habit for a manager is one meaningful conversation per week with each employee.
• Less important is the time of interaction and more important it the quality. Smaller amounts of time discussion recognition, goals, and strengths can be more impactful than more time that doesn’t do this.

Resources Mentioned

• Culture Shock: An unstoppable force is changing how we work and live. Gallup’s solution to the biggest leadership issue of our time* by Jim Clifton and Jim Harter

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409)
• How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537)
• Effective Hybrid Team Management, with Hassan Osman (episode 570)

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Jacqueline Farrington has over 20 years experience as a change maker, empowering leaders and their teams to spark transformation and innovation through communications. Known for her direct, yet supportive and science-backed approach, Jacqueline works with senior and board-level leaders as the founder and president of Farrington Partners. She blends her experience in the performing arts, vocal pedagogy, communications, psychology, and organizational and executive coaching to help her clients find unique communication solutions.

Her clients include multinationals such as Amazon and Microsoft, as well as startups and nonprofits. She proudly served for many years as TEDxSeattle’s Senior Speaker Coach, where she sourced, vetted, and prepared speakers for yearly sold-out audiences. She was thrilled to see several speakers from that event move on to the global TED stage. In addition to teaching at Yale, she has lectured and taught at the London Business School, Rutgers University, and Imperial College. Jacqueline in the author of The Non-Obvious Guide to Better Presentations: How to Present Like a Pro (Virtually or in Person)*.

We all know we should practice before a big presentation, but how you practice makes a big difference on whether you just feel more prepared…or actually are. In this episode, Jacqueline and I explore how to rehearse so you perform better.

Key Points

• A presentation is a performance. Just like any performance, how you rehearse is critical for your success.
• Great presenters look relaxed and natural and unrehearsed because they have practiced over and over again.
• Internalizing your talk is like driving home. You know the route so well, you can take any turn you want and still arrive at the same house.
• Use a memory palace to recall point during your presentation. This also provides and easy path to adjust timing and content when changes inevitably come.
• Create controlled stress for yourself during rehearsals. This surfaces where to get better and also helps you respond more effectively when actual stresses come up when presenting.
• Review your work objectively to decide how to improve your message. It’s helpful to think about watching a recording of someone else so that you can better surface what to change.

Resources Mentioned

• The Non-Obvious Guide to Better Presentations: How to Present Like a Pro (Virtually or in Person)* by Jacqueline Farrington

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Engage With Humor, with David Nihill (episode 245)
• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)
• The Way to Make Sense to Others, with Tom Henschel (episode 518)
• 3 Better Ways to Start a Presentation (Dave’s Journal)

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Eduardo Briceño is a global keynote speaker and facilitator who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of learning and high performance. Earlier in his career, he was the co-founder and CEO of Mindset Works, the first company to offer growth mindset development services. Previously, he was a venture capital investor with the Sprout Group.

His TED Talk, How to Get Better at the Things You Care About, and his prior TEDx Talk, The Power of Belief, have been viewed more than nine million times. He is a Pahara-Aspen Fellow, a member of the Aspen Institute’s Global Leadership Network, and an inductee in the Happiness Hall of Fame. He is the author of The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset Into Action*.

Many of us have heard the invitation in recent years to have a growth mindset — but how do you establish this for an entire team? In this episode, Eduardo and I explore his research on systemizing the learning zone to help teams perform at the highest levels. Plus, we explore tactical shifts that managers can make in order to align intention with reality.

Key Points

• In order for teams to performance at top levels, they need to spend intentional time in both the performance zone and the learning zone.
• Internal competition can hold back teams from learning — and can over focusing on the present instead of the future.
• Systemizing the learning zone helps build a culture where this is expected and normal. Setting expectations for feedback, role plays, and study groups are a few of the many ways organizations can do this.
• Eliminate forced ranking systems, as they often over-perpetuate a culture of performance only vs. performance and learning together.
• Include learning goals in professional development, not only performance goals. This normalizes and systemizes the learning zone as a critical part of work.

Resources Mentioned

• The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset Into Action by Eduardo Briceño
• How to Get Better at the Things You Care About by Eduardo Briceño (TEDx talk)

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Six Tactics for Extraordinary Performance, with Morten Hansen (episode 337)
• How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
• The Way to Make Struggles More Productive, with Sarah Stein Greenberg (episode 569)

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Mark Bowden is a world-renowned body language expert, keynote speaker, and bestselling author. Voted three times by Global Gurus’ as the #1 Body Language Professional in the world, Mark’s unique GesturePlane™ system of nonverbal communication helps audiences maximize the power of using their own body language to stand out, win trust, and gain credibility every time they communicate.

As the founder of communication training company TRUTHPLANE®, Mark’s live and virtual keynote speeches and training prove invaluable to business leaders and teams from influential companies including Zoom, Shopify, Toyota, KPMG, American Express, the US Army and NATO; and prime ministers of G7 nations. His bestselling books on body language and human behavior are: Winning Body Language*, Winning Body Language for Sales Professionals*, Tame the Primitive Brain*, and Truth & Lies, What People are Really Thinking*. His highly acclaimed TEDx talk The Importance of Being In-Authentic continues to reach millions of people, as does his own YouTube Channel.

Most professionals are on video more these days than they ever thought they would be. As a result, making the best first impression on camera is more essential to our work than ever before. In this conversation, Mark and I explore several of the key principles that will help us start better in virtual interactions.

Key Points

• We make judgment calls very quickly depending on how someone shows up visually.
• It’s your duty to influence and persuade — and we all do this in some way already to change outcomes.
• While we’re used to viewing content on screen (television, movies, YouTube) we aren’t used to interacting and collaborating on screen.
• Use video in short, consistent ways. Tools like Loom can help us do on camera what we already know works well in person: regular interaction.
• Your smile can set the tone for an interaction and it’s important to use a visual aid to remind you of this if you’re staring at black boxes on screen.
• Bring your gestures into the camera frame. Gestures that match the cadence and rhythm can help connect your audience with your message.

Resources Mentioned

• Winning Body Language* by Mark Bowden
• Truth and Lies*: What People Are Really Thinking by Mark Bowden and Tracey Thomson
• The Importance Of Being Inauthentic by Mark Bowden (TEDx talk)
• Best Tips for Virtual Presentations by Mark Bowden (YouTube)
• Mark Bowden on LinkedIn

Related Episodes

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• The Way to Influence Executives, with Nancy Duarte (episode 450)
• The Way to Make Sense to Others, with Tom Henschel (episode 518)
• Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)

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Mauro Guillén is Professor of Management and Vice Dean at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. An expert on global market trends, he is a sought-after speaker and consultant. He combines his training as a sociologist at Yale and as a business economist in his native Spain to identify and quantify the most promising opportunities at the intersection of demographic, economic, and technological developments.

His online classes on Coursera and edX have attracted over 100,000 participants from around the world. He has won multiple teaching awards at Wharton, where his presentation on global market trends has become a permanent feature of over fifty executive education programs annually. His book on 2030: How Today’s Biggest Trends Will Collide and Reshape the Future of Everything was an instant Wall Street Journal bestseller and he’s now the author of The Perennials: The Megatrends Creating a Postgenerational Society*.

Many of us grew up in a world where life was divided into three stages: school, work, and retirement. Traditional ways of thinking about credentialing and ways to transition in the workforce are also changing. In this conversation, Mauro and I explore what has changed and how we can shift our thinking and actions to stay relevant in a new world of work.

Key Points

• The sequential model of life is no longer as relevant as it was a generation ago. Life span, health span, and technology are massively affecting how we think about generations.
• It’s no longer a correct assumption that entry level positions are going to be only filled people in their twenties coming out of school.
• Intergenerational learning is an opportunity that many institutions and organizations still miss. Embracing this will increasingly help us stay relevant.
• Traditional credentials will still hold value, but it will be assessed in the context people’s ability in learning how to learn.
• Intergenerational differences are real, they do not necessarily result in different values, attitudes, and behaviors in the workplace. There is lots of heterogeneity that our stereotypes conceal.

Resources Mentioned

• The Perennials: The Megatrends Creating a Postgenerational Society* by Mauro Guillén

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Lead a 100-Year Life, with Lynda Gratton (episode 266)
• Essentials of Adult Development, with Mindy Danna (episode 273)
• How to Help People Engage in Growth, with Whitney Johnson (episode 576)

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Renée Mauborgne is the INSEAD Distinguished Fellow and a professor of strategy at the global business school INSEAD. She is the co-author of the 4 million copy global bestseller Blue Ocean Strategy, which is recognized as one of the most iconic and impactful strategy books ever written, and is also co-author of the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Los Angeles Times bestseller Blue Ocean Shift.

To date, the Blue Ocean Strategy and Blue Ocean Shift teaching materials have been adopted by over 2,800 universities across the globe. In 2022, Harvard Business Review selected Blue Ocean Strategy as one of the most influential and innovative articles published in HBR over the last 100 years. Along with her colleague W. Chan Kim, she was named the most influential management thinker in the world by Thinkers50. She is the first woman ever to secure that top spot. She is the co-author with W. Chan Kim of Beyond Disruption: Innovate and Achieve Growth without Displacing Industries, Companies, or Jobs*.

Key Points

• Zero-sum thinking means that if we win, someone else must lose. Many of us have been conditioned to accept that this is how competition has to work.
• Nondisruptive creation creates new industries without leaving failed companies, lost jobs, and destroyed markets in its wake.
• Consider shifting focus from structure to agency. Firms that generate nondisruptive creation lead with agency.
• Don’t confuse the means with the ends. Technology enables, but value innovation is ultimately what creates a nondisruptive new market.
• Unlock the many, not just the few. Overemphasizing an entrepreneur or creative leader underemphasizes the contributions of everyone else.

Resources Mentioned

• Beyond Disruption: Innovate and Achieve Growth without Displacing Industries, Companies, or Jobs* by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne
• Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make the Competition Irrelevant* by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Start Seeing Around Corners, with Rita McGrath (episode 430)
• Help People Show Up as Themselves, with Frederic Laloux (episode 580)
• The Mindset to Help Your Organization Grow, with Tiffani Bova (episode 633)

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Tom Burbage retired from the Lockheed Martin Corporation in 2013. He was the President of the Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems Company and the Executive VP/GM for both the USAF F-22 Raptor and the multi-service, allied next generation fighter, the F-35. Prior to joining Lockheed, Tom was a Naval Aviator, completing the U.S. Navy Test Pilot School in 1975. He has accumulated more than 3,000 hours in 38 different types of military aircraft. As a reservist he retired as a Navy Captain in 1994.

Tom has received numerous industry awards, including the U.S. Naval Academy/Harvard Business Review Award for Ethical Leadership; the Aerospace Industry Personality of the Year; the Society of Automotive Engineers Leadership in Aerospace Award; and many others. He is also a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society in the United Kingdom. He is co-author along with Betsy Clark and Adrian Pitman of the book F-35: The Inside Story of the Lightning II.

Sometimes we find ourselves leading a very large team that isn’t used to working together. That happened to Tom who was the general manager of the F-35 fighter jet. In this conversation, we explore how to bring together many stakeholders in order to do something bigger than any one of them could do alone.

Key Points

• Solicit and listen to feedback on what didn’t work in past situations.
• Establish behavior norms and expectations and continue coming back to them. When disagreements happen, resolve them in the context of these norms.
• Consider including customers in major meetings, so struggles are shared transparently with all stakeholders.
• Behavior norms and expectations were established globally and referenced in most formal interactions. When flare ups happened, they were often settled quickly in the spirit of the norms.
• A “one team” concept was used to unify people from formerly competing organizations to align them to the nobler motive.

Resources Mentioned

• F-35: The Inside Story of the Lightning II* by Tom Burbage, Betsy Clark, and Adrian Pitman

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
• How to Build a Coaching Culture, with Andrea Wanerstrand (episode 501)
• How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
• How to Lead Better Through Complexity, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 613)

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Danna Greenberg is the Walter H. Carpenter Professor of Organizational Behavior at Babson College. Her main area of research focuses on understanding the intersection between individuals’ work and non-work lives as they move through their career. Her scholarship is guided by the belief that individuals can and should be able to live full lives at work and at home and that by challenging current assumptions regarding work we can find better ways for businesses, families, and communities to thrive.

Her other research stream centers on the scholarship of teaching and learning. Here she is focused on the continued changing landscape of higher education as it pertains to how we teach, what we teach, and how to define the lives of academics. Danna has published more than 30 articles and book chapters in leading journals including Academy of Management Journal, Human Resource Management, and Academy of Management Learning and Education. She is the co-author with Jamie Ladge of Maternal Optimism: Forging Positive Paths Through Work and Motherhood*.

When women return to work after a baby, there’s a lot our society implies about how that’s supposed to look. Danna’s research finds that this can look very different for every family. On this episode, a few things that women, their partners, and their managers can do to support a better transition in returning to work.

Key Points

• Over 70% of mothers in the United States return to work after having children.
• There tends to be a “guilt and anguish” script in the popular media about women returning to work after a maternity leave. That’s absolutely true for some women (especially those with fewer resources) but other women have very different experiences.
• Managers can help by opening dialogue about what’s ideal to support a woman and her family during and after maternity leave.
• Comments like “I am so impressed by how you are going to do it all!” are often well-intended but can reinforce views that might not be true for a woman or her family. Focus praise at work on work, not parenting.
• Men may be more likely to listen to the challenges working mother face when other men surface them. Male managers can take the lead on this.
• During leave, mothers can help create a foundation of shared parenting (if that’s their choice) by engaging their partners in substantial ways in childcare and limit gatekeeping.

Resources Mentioned

• Maternal Optimism: Forging Positive Paths Through Work and Motherhood* by Jamie Ladge and Danna Greenberg

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Reduce Drama With Kids, with Tina Payne Bryson (episode 310)
• Finding Joy Through Intentional Choices, with Bonni Stachowiak (episode 417)
• How to Create Inclusive Hiring Practices, with Ruchika Tulshyan (episode 589)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide*.

Listener Questions

• Jose asked about how to balance professional and personal responsibilities and get it all done.
• Jordan mentioned getting passed up for a promotion twice and wondering what suggestions we have on the feedback they have received.
• Ahmad asked us about resources for supporting high performances and team members who are struggling.
• Jenna shared a distinction between tuition reimbursement and tuition assistance that Dave expanded on.

Resources Mentioned

• Getting Things Done* by David Allen
• Leadership Story Deck* by David Hutchens
• Start With Why* by Simon Sinek
• Hope for the Flowers* by Trina Paulus
• The Empowered Manager* by Peter Block
• Kim Scott’s distinction on Superstars vs. Rock Stars
• CliftonStrengths by Gallup

Related Episodes

• How to Get Way Better at Accepting Feedback, with Sheila Heen (episode 143)
• Getting Things Done, with David Allen (episode 184)
• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• The Way to Stop Spinning Your Wheels on Planning (episode 319)
• Finding Joy Through Intentional Choices, with Bonni Stachowiak (episode 417)
• The Way to Make Sense to Others, with Tom Henschel (episode 518)
• The Four Storytelling Mistakes Leaders Make, with David Hutchens (episode 553)
• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)

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Vanessa Patrick is the Associate Dean for Research, Executive Director of Doctoral Programs, a Bauer Professor of Marketing and lead faculty of the Executive Women in Leadership Program at the Bauer School of Business at the University of Houston. She has been recognized with a number of awards for both scholarship and teaching and was named one of the top 50 most productive marketing scholars worldwide by the DocSig of the American Marketing Association.

Vanessa was appointed as a Fulbright Specialist (2019-24) by the U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. She is a prominent scholar in her field and serves on editorial and policy boards of leading academic journals. She is currently an Associate Editor for the Journal of Marketing Research and the Journal of Marketing and she’s the author of The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life*.

Most leaders know that it’s important to say no to requests that aren’t the right use of time and resources. But how do you navigate this when the other party is likely to respond in a difficult way? In this conversation, Vanessa and I explore the patterns of difficult askers and how we can do a better job of responding when we’re interacting with them.

Key Points

• We all have both marigolds and walnut trees in our lives. Marigold protect and strengthen us – walnut trees crowd out our time and interfere.
• Difficult askers often confront us with face-to-face requests, use their home court advantage, and insist on an immediate response.
• Pushback is normal and expected. It’s helpful to view it as a hurdle to overcome vs. something to avoid. Either way, we will spend the energy.
• Resentment is a helpful indicator that difficult askers are taking too much power. Establish personal policies that provide guidelines so you can proactively come back to values when considering requests.
• It’s helpful to consider advance requests in the context of fulfilling the commitment immediately, otherwise we’ll continue to feel the pressure of resentment and

Resources Mentioned

• The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No That Puts You in Charge of Your Life* by Vanessa Patrick

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Say No Without Saying No, with Lois Frankel (episode 471)
• How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546)
• How to Help People Speak Truth to Power, with Megan Reitz (episode 597)

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Liz Anderson has extensive experience as a solutions engineering leader and is the founder of the PreSales Path. She’s also an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy.

In this SaturdayCast, Liz and I discuss the inflection points she’s experienced in the past year, how intentional focus on her vision and identity helped move her forward, and the value of consistency through it all.

Key Points

• Professional development is about finding the starting points and then adapting as you go.
• Once you decide on a new identity and direction, the indicators start to emerge on where to go next.
• When your heart and intention are in the right place, the tactical path is still not easy, but it is clearer.

Resources Mentioned

• Liz Anderson

Related Episodes

• How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
• How to Nail a Job Transition, with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy (episode 555)
• How to Get Moving, with Gladys McGarey (episode 631)
• How to Get Traction With a New Habit (audio course)

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Michael Bungay Stanier is the author of eight books, including The Coaching Habit, which has sold more than a million copies and is the best-selling book on coaching this century. Most recently he wrote How to Begin, and back in 2011 he created and edited End Malaria, a book written in partnership with Seth Godin that raised more than $400k for Malaria No More.

Michael is the founder Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that’s trained thousands of people around the world to be more coach-like. He has been featured in many publications including Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Fast Company. His TEDx Talk on Taming Your Advice Monster has been viewed more than a million times. Michael’s newest book is How to Work with (Almost) Anyone: Building the Best Possible Relationship*.

Most leaders recognize the critical nature of healthy, peer relationships. Yet, few leaders lay an intentional foundation for success as those relationships start. In this episode, Michael and I discuss how to start with peers using the five questions in a Keystone Conversation.

Key Points

• Nobody really like to say hello but everyone likes to be greeted. Make a decision to be the person that begins.
• Preparing thoughtful responses to the five questions in a Keystone Conversation will help you come to a dialogue in an authentic and vulnerable way.
• The responses themselves aren’t as critical as the process itself. By entering into a keystone conversation, you are laying the foundation for future dialogue and the best possible relationship.

The five questions of a Keystone Conversation:

• The Amplify Question: What’s your best?
• The Steady Question: What are your practices and preferences?
• The Good Date Question: What can you learn from successful past relationships?
• The Bad Date Question: What can you learn from frustrating past relationships?
• The Repair Question: How will you fix it when things go wrong?

Resources Mentioned

• Preorder Michael’s book at bestpossiblerelationship.com
• Bonus audio: Michael’s process for writing this book (12 minutes)

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block (episode 328)
• How to Involve Stakeholders in Decisions, with Eric Pliner (episode 586)
• How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)

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Susan Cain is the author of Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking, which spent seven years on The New York Times bestseller list and has been translated into 40 languages. It was named the #1 best book of the year by Fast Company, which also named Susan one of its Most Creative People in Business. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, and many other publications. Her record-smashing TED Talk has been viewed over 30 million times and was named by Bill Gates one of his all-time favorite talks.

Susan has also spoken at Microsoft, Google, the U.S. Treasury, the S.E.C., Harvard, Yale, West Point, and the US Naval Academy. She received Harvard Law School’s Celebration Award for Thought Leadership, the Toastmasters International Golden Gavel Award for Communication and Leadership, and was named one of the world’s top 50 Leadership and Management Experts by Inc. She is now also the author of the bestselling book Bittersweet: How Sorrow and Longing Make Us Whole*.

We’ve all heard the value of positive thinking and aiming for happiness, but we don’t often think about the value of sorrow — and rarely in the context of leadership. In this conversation, Susan returns to the podcast to explore how the full spectrum of who we are can help us live — and lead – just a bit better.

Key Points

• We espouse the value of happiness and positive thinking but don’t often recognize the value of appreciating sorrow and pain.
• Words like “pain” and “suffering” tend to not show up in our workplaces, even when that’s clearly what’s being experienced. Instead, these realities are often substituted with words like “anger” or “frustration.”
• Yes we should focus on our strengths, but beware of confusing a bittersweet temperament or sadness, with weakness.
• Having power or feeling superior may prevent us from seeing others sadness — or even our own. Leaders who can embrace humility often find that results follow too.
• The physical act of bowing can help with humility, as does capturing in writing moments of compassion (either from others or for others), as well as a focus on self-compassion.

Resources Mentioned

• Preorder Bittersweet for a free book plate from Susan
• Empathy: The Human Connection to Patient Care by The Cleveland Clinic
• The Kindred Letters by Susan Cain

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking, with Susan Cain (episode 44)
• Use Power for Good and Not Evil, with Dacher Keltner (episode 254)
• Four Steps to Get Unstuck and Embrace Change, with Susan David (episode 297)

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Tiffani Bova is the global customer growth and innovation evangelist at Salesforce, and The Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Growth IQ. Over the past two decades, she has led large revenue-producing divisions at businesses ranging from start-ups to the Fortune 500.

As a Research Fellow at Gartner, her cutting-edge insights helped Microsoft, Cisco, Salesforce, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Oracle, and many other prominent companies expand their market share and grow their revenues. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50 twice and she’s the host of the podcast What’s Next! with Tiffani Bova. She is the author of The Experience Mindset: Changing the Way You Think About Growth*.

While many organizations espouse that employees are their greatest asset, most senior leaders prioritize customer needs above all else. Data clearly shows that balancing great employee experience along with a quality customer experience drives better results. In this conversation, Tiffani and I discuss the mindset and initial steps that leaders can take to improve the experience for both employees and customers.

Key Points

• In recent decades, we’ve been in the mindset of customer-first. Today, the biggest threat to organizations is worker unhappiness.
• While almost every organization espouses the importance of employees, few executive leaders can identify who “owns” the employee experience in their organization. In contrast, almost every organization has a clearly defined customer experience owner.
• Proper investments in technology are often an obstacle to an ideal employee experience. Getting better at this means that senior leaders in human resources, information technology, and customer experience must work together to help impact line up with intention.
• Three starting points for better employee experience are: reviewing data for customer experience and compare it to the trends for employee experience, utilizing employee advisory boards for a voice in emerging strategy, and reviewing employee survey results to determine what findings have been addressed.
• Getting better at balancing customer experience and employee experience means moving away from an expert’s mindset and towards a beginner’s mindset.

Resources Mentioned

• The Experience Mindset: Changing the Way You Think About Growth* by Tiffani Bova

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Discover What People Want, with Tiziana Casciaro (episode 565)
• Gallup’s Insights on Addressing Unhappiness, with Jon Clifton (episode 601)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)

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Seth Godin is the author of 21 international bestsellers that have changed the way people think about work. His books have been translated into 38 languages. Seth writes one of the most popular marketing blogs in the world, and two of his TED talks are among the most popular of all time.

He is the founder of the altMBA, the social media pioneer Squidoo, and Yoyodyne, one of the first internet companies. His blog is at seths.blog and his newest book is The Song of Significance: A New Manifesto for Teams*.

Seth says that the foundation of all real skills is the confidence and permission to talk to each another. No place is that more apparent than in our meetings. On this episode, Seth returns to help us move towards meetings of significance.

Key Points

• The song of significance is about work that matters, being part of something bigger than each one of us, and doing things we’re proud of.
• Many organizations and leaders hold meetings, but they are often reports and lectures. Meetings of significance are conversations.
• Despite knowing the critical important of conversations, we tend to resist them in our roles. Our work is to begin those conversations.
• Start with agreement on what a meeting is how we do work that matters through it. The problem is rarely with Zoom. The problem is how you show up to facilitate the meeting.
• Create the culture you need to serve people well by setting the tone for it. You have more power than you think.

Resources Mentioned

• The Song of Significance: A New Manifesto for Teams* by Seth Godin

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• The Way to Have Conversations That Matter, with Celeste Headlee (episode 344)
• How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
• How to Use Power Responsibly, with Vanessa Bohns (episode 551)

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Gladys McGarey is 102 years old and a still-practicing doctor. Recognized as a pioneer of the allopathic and holistic medical movements, she is also a founding diplomat of the American Board of Holistic Medicine. She is the cofounder and past president of the American Holistic Medical Association, as well as the cofounder of the Academy of Parapsychology and Medicine and the founder of The International Academy of Clinical Hypnosis.

Gladys lives and works in Scottsdale, Arizona, where for many years she shared a medical practice with her daughter. She currently has a medical consulting practice, maintains a healthy diet, and enjoys a good piece of cake every now and then. She has spoken at TEDx and is the author of The Well-Lived Life: A 102-Year Old Doctor’s Six Secrets to Health and Happiness at Any Age*.

Our efforts in leadership development, personal growth, or getting better at anything, are all about starting. In this conversation, Gladys and I discuss the critical nature of movement in our lives and work. We also explore how to identify where to start and why it’s more about beginning that finishing.

Key Points

• All life needs to move. If we’re not moving, we can’t function.
• Stuckness is an illusion. If we know what to look for, movement is all around us and within us.
• A flashlight in the dark can only see a few steps ahead — but that’s enough to move in the right direction and begin seeing more.
• Look for the trickle around the dam. Noticing where movement already is will often be the starting point to go further.
• Doctors don’t heal patients, only patients can heal themselves. Pay attention to beginning instead of finishing.

Resources Mentioned

• The Well-Lived Life: A 102-Year Old Doctor’s Six Secrets to Health and Happiness at Any Age* by Gladys McGarey

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Tame Your Inner Critic, with Tara Mohr (episode 232)
• Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
• How to Make Progress When Starting Something New, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 562)

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Jeremy Utley is the Director of Executive Education at the Stanford d.school, and an Adjunct Professor at Stanford’s School of Engineering, where he has earned multiple favorite professor distinctions from graduate programs. He co-teaches two celebrated courses, Leading Disruptive Innovation (d.leadership) and LaunchPad, which focus on creating real-world impact with the tools of design & innovation.

He is also on the teaching teams of d.org, an organizational design course, and Transformative Design, a course that turns the tools of design onto graduate students’ lives. One of the most prodigious collaborators at the d.school, Jeremy has taught alongside the likes of Lecrae, Dan Ariely, Laszlo Bock, and Greg McKeown. He is the author along with Perry Klebahn of Ideaflow: The Only Business Metric That Matters.

Brainstorming sessions often emerge to address a problem requiring new ideas or innovation. However, the way many of us approach brainstorming vastly limits what’s possible for our teams and organizations. In this conversation, Jeremy and I discuss where leaders go wrong and some of the most helpful mindsets and tactics to do better.

Key Points

• We tend to like cognitive closure. That often stops us from moving forward more substantially during brainstorming.
• The Idea Ratio shows that 2000 ideas are needed for every one idea that goes to market. Most teams and organizations vastly underestimate this.
• Set the expectation that brainstorming is a process, not a single event. That will help you surface vastly more useful ideas.
• Gather initial suggestions before a session to avoid favoring extroverts and early anchoring on what’s said initially. A useful way to make this is ask the language, “How might we…?”
• Warm-up exercises can substantially help put team members in the right mindset for creativity, especially for those with busy schedules moving between contexts.

Resources Mentioned

• Ideaflow: The Only Business Metric That Matters by Jeremy Utley and Perry Klebahn
• Jeremy Utley’s website

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Be Present, with Dan O’Connor (episode 399)
• The Way to Nurture New Ideas, with Safi Bahcall (episode 418)
• How to Build an Invincible Company, with Alex Osterwalder (episode 470)

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Donald Miller is The New York Times bestselling author of Building a StoryBrand and Business Made Simple. He has helped thousands of businesses grow with his powerful framework. In 2010, Don started the business he’d always dreamed of. Although his business was doing ok, he quickly realized it wasn’t what he thought it would be. Everything depended on him, and he was drowning in the mundane day-to-day.

For years, his business struggled to produce dependable, predictable results. Over years of fits and false starts, Don grew his business from nothing to nearly $20 million. In the end, he realized there were six key parts of a business, and if they were managed well, the business would fly far and fast. He’s captured those lessons in his book How to Grow Your Small Business: A 6-Step Plan to Help Your Business Take Off*.

A huge percentage of businesses fail before they have any significant success. One key trigger is failure to market the business effectively. In this conversation Donald and I discuss how to power the marketing engine of your business by using the key elements of the StoryBrand framework.

Key Points

• Most small businesses think more about how their marketing will look rather than what their marketing will say.
• People are attracted to what helps them survive and thrive…and it helps to communicate those message simply.
• People buy products and services to solve problems, not because they care that much about the business.
• The customer is the hero. Never play the hero; always play the guide.
• People who are insecure talk about themselves. People who are confident talk about others. Talk about yourself only in the context of how it helps the customer.

Resources Mentioned

• How to Grow Your Small Business: A 6-Step Plan to Help Your Business Take Off* by Donald Miller

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)
• How Leaders Build, with Guy Raz (episode 491)
• How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607)

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Brian Feroldi is a financial educator, YouTuber, and author. He has been intensely interested in money, personal finance, and investing ever since he graduated from college. His mission statement is to spread financial wellness. He loves to help other people do better with their money, especially their investments.

Brian has written more than 3,000 articles on stocks, investing, and personal finance for The Motley Fool. In 2022, Brian’s book Why Does The Stock Market Go Up? was published. The mission of the book is to demystify the stock market. It was written to explain how the market works in plain English. He’s also the co-creator of the course, Financial Statements Explained Simply.

Most of us are not accountants, but whether you work in a small business, a large corporation, a non-profit, or a government agency, the numbers define what resources that we have. Being able to understand and speak the language of financial statements is essential for leaders who want to influence decisions. In this episode, Brian and I review how to understand and read one of the most important reports for any organization: the income statement.

Key Points

• A few hours of focus on the fundamentals of financial statement can provide you understanding and influence throughout your career.
• An income statement (also called a profit and loss statement or P&L) shows revenue, expenses, and profit over a period of time. It’s similar to your personal budget.
• Revenue minus cost of goods sold is gross profit.
• Subtracting operation expenses from gross profit give you an organization’s operating income or EBIT (earnings before income and taxes).
• Depreciation spreads out the cost of tangible assets (equipment, vehicles, buildings) their useful lives. Amortization does the same thing for intangible assets (loans, copyrights, patents).
• The “bottom line” is literally the bottom line at the end, either net income or net loss.

Resources Mentioned

• Brian Feroldi’s newsletter
• Financial Statements Explained Simply (course)

Related Episodes

• Improve Your Financial Intelligence, with Joe Knight (episode 244)
• How to Approach Corporate Budgeting, with Jody Wodrich (episode 355)
• Dumb Things Smart People Do With Money, with Jill Schlesinger (episode 396)

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Kwame Christian is a best-selling author, business lawyer, and CEO of the American Negotiation Institute. Following the viral success of his TED talk, Kwame released his best-seller Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life back in 2018. He’s also a regular Contributor for Forbes and the host of the number one negotiation podcast in the world, Negotiate Anything, which currently has over 5 million downloads worldwide.

Under his leadership, the American Negotiation Institute has coached and trained several Fortune 500 companies on applying the fundamentals of negotiation to corporate success. He’s also the author of the book How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race and the creator of Negotiable, an Online Community to Learn to Negotiate Anything.

We often think about questions as a way to discover more — but have you also considered how your questions might influence? Kwame Christian and I discuss three key steps in order to persuade better through your intentional questions.

Key Points

• Rapport questions help you make a connection with the other party and establish a baseline for how they communicate.
• A helpful place to begin on rapport is noticing something that you genuinely admire or are curious about in the other party.
• When gaining information, start broadly and then pull the thread when the other party leads you down a path. Beware that your role/position can cause people to say more than they otherwise might.
• “What would it take?” is often a helpful way to illuminate a path forward.
• Even if you ultimately are more directive, laying the foundation through questions allows the other party to be heard and understood.

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• These Coaching Questions Get Results, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 237)
• How to Ask Better Questions, with David Marquet (episode 454)
• The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)

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Henry Cloud is an acclaimed leadership expert, clinical psychologist and a New York Times bestselling author. His 45 books, including the iconic Boundaries, have sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide. He has an extensive executive coaching background and experience as a leadership consultant, devoting the majority of his time working with CEOs, leadership teams, and executives to improve performance, leadership skills, and culture.

Henry’s work has been featured and reviewed by The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, Publisher’s Weekly, Los Angeles Times, and many other publications. Success Magazine named him in the top 25 most influential leaders in personal growth and development, alongside Oprah, Brené Brown, Seth Godin and others. He is a frequent contributor to CNN, Fox News Channel, and other national media outlets. Henry is the author of Trust: Knowing When to Give It, When to Withhold It, How to Earn It, and How to Fix It When It Gets Broken*.

When someone betrays your trust, what do you do next? In this conversation, Henry and I explore the five factors of trust and the importance of each one of them in our relationships. Then, we look at the starting point for rebuilding trust after a betrayal, beginning with you and your own support network.

Key Points

• Five factors are key for trust: understanding, motive, ability, character, and track record.
• Repairing trust is not clean or orderly. The first step is about you, not the person who betrayed you.
• Leaders who have a support network already in place are better able to take a pause and work through emotion and anger.
• An authentic apology from someone should articulate the event itself, demonstrate their empathy for how the event felt to you, and appreciate the consequences of their actions.
• Forgiving someone does not mean you trust them.

Resources Mentioned

• Trust: Knowing When to Give It, When to Withhold It, How to Earn It, and How to Fix It When It Gets Broken* by Henry Cloud

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Art of Constructing Apologies, with Sandra Sucher (episode 535)
• The Path Towards Trusting Relationships, with Edgar Schein and Peter Schein (episode 539)
• How to Approach a Reorg, with Claire Hughes Johnson (episode 621)

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Morra Aarons-Mele is the host of The Anxious Achiever, a top-10 management podcast that helps people rethink the relationship between their mental health and their leadership. Morra founded Women Online and The Mission List, an award-winning digital-consulting firm and influencer marketing company dedicated to social change, in 2010 and sold her business in 2021.

She helped Hillary Clinton log on for her first internet chat and has launched digital campaigns for President Obama, Malala Yousafzai, the United Nations, the CDC, and many other leading figures and organizations. She is the author of The Anxious Achiever: Turn Your Biggest Fears into Your Leadership Superpower*.

In this conversation, Morra and I discuss some key tactics that help leaders release just a bit of control. Since control is often driven by fear, we can let go of some control by making small shifts in our practices, awareness, and planning. We also explore how to set boundaries that will help us lead in ways that are more helpful to others — and ourselves.

Key Points

• Control is often caused by fear. Optimism can be a bit of an antidote to it.
• Adopt a practice mindset by making small shifts to endure uncomfortable things.
• Practice open awareness throughs surrender; the opposite of controlling and micromanaging.
• Get clear on scheduling, deadlines, longer term career goals. Those provide a healthy illusion of control.
• Create a distinction between having an emotion and being the emotion.
• Begin setting boundaries by noticing when you are moving from comfort to discomfort.

Resources Mentioned

• The Anxious Achiever: Turn Your Biggest Fears into Your Leadership Superpower* by Morra Aarons-Mele
• The Anxious Achiever podcast

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Four Steps to Get Unstuck and Embrace Change, with Susan David (episode 297)
• Effective Delegation of Authority, with Hassan Osman (episode 413)
• Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)

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Jill Schlesinger is an Emmy Award winning Business Analyst for CBS News. She appears on CBS radio and television stations nationwide covering the economy, markets, investing and anything else with a dollar sign. Jill is the host of the Jill on Money podcast and of the nationally syndicated radio show, Jill on Money, which won the 2018 and 2021 Gracie Award for Best National Talk Show.

Jill is a frequent speaker on a variety of topics, including macroeconomic, market and demographic trends; workplace issues for women and LGBT employees in financial services; and how to create authentic branding. She is the author of The Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money and her most recent book, The Great Money Reset: Change Your Work, Change Your Wealth, Change Your Life*.

In this conversation, Jill and I examine the decision-making process that many of us use when considering advanced degrees or certifications. We discuss some of the common missteps that people make in educational investments and identity three key steps that can help us do better. Plus, we encourage leaders to get clear on their goals and outcomes and alternative ways to fund major educational investments.

Key Points

• Every situation is different. Examining your situation is more helpful than relying on an assumption that all educational investments are wise.
• Identify the precise skills, knowledge, or credential you hope to gain by going back to school and how your career with benefit.
• Remember that the cost of tuition does not always reflect the full cost such as lost salary or time out of the workforce.
• Explore cheaper options if they still archive your overall objectives. A cheaper degree from a less prestigious university may meet 95% of the outcomes you want.
• Consider how your employer may support your educational investments. Some companies will consider sponsoring some of your educational expenses if you make a formal request.

Resources Mentioned

• The Great Money Reset: Change Your Work, Change Your Wealth, Change Your Life* by Jill Schlesinger

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• Four Rules to Get Control of Your Money, with Jesse Mecham (episode 356)
• Dumb Things Smart People Do With Money, with Jill Schlesinger (episode 396)
• The Way Into Better Conversations About Wealth, with Kristin Keffeler (episode 606)
• Seven Steps to Landing Professional Development Funding (MemberCast)

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Jonathan spent 20 years building careers in business development and personal growth before realizing he could have the best of both worlds by starting his own company. Now, he uses those skills to advise CEOs and organizational leaders on how to create a people-first culture that drives results.

As the founder of Refound, his goal is to provide clients with a partner they can trust and programs that gives managers an experience of how they can make work a better place, one conversation at a time. He’s the author of the book Good Authority: How to Become the Leader Your Team Is Waiting For*. He’s also the creator of the Accountability Dial, used daily by many of our members and listeners to open up more healthy dialogue inside of their teams and organizations.

It may seem like you’ve had the same conversation about 17 times, but again you have an employee asking you, “Wait? Is this thing we’re talking about supposed to be part of my job?” You again clarify their role, but you’re also thinking in the back of your mind, “Really? We’re having this conversation again?” In this episode, Jonathan and I discuss four questions to ask of yourself — and your employee — to align them with the role.

Key Points

• Mangers often complain that employees do not have clarity on their roles.
• Separate the role from the person. Depersonalizing the role actually helps you to have a better alignment conversation.
• What do you want employees to be owning, thinking about, and worrying about? Those are windows into the Soul of the Role.
• There are three steps to role alignment: defining the role, aligning the role with the employee, and sustaining the dialogue about the role.

Four questions that will help you define a role:

1. What is the purpose of this role?
2. What makes someone successful in this role?
3. What are three priorities for this role in the next 90 days?
4. Where are their decision-making rights?

Resources Mentioned

• Refound Academy: Good Authority, Good Alignment, and Good Accountability courses
• Good Authority: How to Become the Leader Your Team Is Waiting For* by Jonathan Raymond

Interview Notes

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Related Episodes

• Effective Delegation of Authority, with Hassan Osman (episode 413)
• How to Balance Care and Accountability When Leading Remotely, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 464)
• How to Lead and Retain High Performers, with Ruth Gotian (episode 567)

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Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide.

Listener Questions

• Susan asked about assessing the difference between an employee who has addressable gaps in their skills and knowledge versus when they are in over their head.
• Elizabeth asked our advice on managing a team member who appears over-confident in their abilities…and how to hold them accountable.
• Steve wondered how we handle household tasks between the two of us in the midst of our busy schedules.

Resources Mentioned

• Analyzing Performance Problems* by Robert Mager and Peter Pipe
• The Alignment Problem by Brian Christian
• Wonder Tools by Jeremy Kaplan
• The Home Edit by Clea Shearer and Joanna Teplin

Related Episodes

• The Way to Stop Rescuing People From Their Problems, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 284)
• How to Challenge Directly and Care Personally, with Kim Scott (episode 302)
• Five Steps to Hold People Accountable, with Jonathan Raymond (episode 306)
• Finding Joy Through Intentional Choices, with Bonni Stachowiak (episode 417)

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Claire Hughes Johnson is a corporate officer and advisor for Stripe, a global technology company that builds economic infrastructure for the internet. She previously served as Stripe’s Chief Operating Officer, helping the company grow from fewer than 200 employees to more than 8,000.

Prior to Stripe, Claire spent 10 years at Google leading various business teams, including overseeing aspects of Gmail, Google Apps, and consumer operations. She is a board member at Hallmark Cards, The Atlantic, Ameresco, and HubSpot. Claire also serves as a trustee and the current board president of Milton Academy. She is the author of Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building*.

You are charged with leading a reorg, but do you know the mindset, actions, and steps to take? In this conversation, Claire and I explore some of the key lessons she’s discovered as an executive leader in a quickly growing enterprise. We discuss the key triggers for a reorg, the three phases of reorganization, and common pitfalls leaders should avoid.

Key Points

• Reorganizations or restructurings and often seen as a sign of a problem, but that’s not always the case.
• Why reorganize? Two triggers: (1) your team structure doesn’t match your strategy and/or (2) you have a talent issue.
• While there are times to go slower, the bias should be to move with haste. Don’t leave ice cream on the counter for too long.
• Be very cautious about creating structure around a single individual.

Three phases of a reorg:

• Phase 0: Decide whether you need a reorg and determine your new structure.
• Phase 1: Get buy-in from the key people who need to be involved.
• Phase 2: Create a communications plan and inform all of those affected.

Resources Mentioned

• Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building* by Claire Hughes Johnson
• Transitions* by William Bridges

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Manage Former Peers, with Tom Henschel (episode 257)
• Three Steps to Great Career Conversations, with Russ Laraway (episode 370)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)

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Sally Helgesen has been cited by Forbes as the world’s premier expert on women’s leadership. She is a best-selling author, speaker and leadership coach. She has been named by Thinkers50 as one of the world’s top 20 coaches and ranked number 6 among the world’s thought leaders by Global Gurus. She is the author of several books, including The Female Advantage: Women’s Ways of Leadership and The Female Vision: Women’s Real Power at Work.

Her book The Web of Inclusion: A New Architecture for Building Great Organizations, was cited in The Wall Street Journal as one of the best books on leadership of all time and is credited with bringing the language of inclusion into business. She co-authored How Women Rise, with executive coach Marshall Goldsmith, examining the behaviors most likely to get in the way of successful women. Her newest book is Rising Together: How We Can Bridge Divides and Create a More Inclusive Workplace*.

When we get triggered, our default response tends to be either venting about it to others or suffering in silence. In this conversation, Sally and I explore how to respond in a more useful way. She invites us to consider being less invested in our initial response, creating an alternative script, and finding a path forward to influence different behavior.

Key Points

• When we get triggered, our tendency is to either vent about it or suffer in silence.
• Being overly invested in our first response limits our ability to respond better. This is the authenticity trap.
• Create an alternative, positive script that helps your own mental well-being and precipitates a more helpful action.
• Whether the alternative script is true or not isn’t the point. The aim is to find the line between not humiliating the other party and also not letting a poor behavior be unaddressed.
• Wisdom from Sun Tzu: indirection or redirection to disarm an opponent is preferable to the direct engagement or combat.

Resources Mentioned

• Rising Together: How We Can Bridge Divides and Create a More Inclusive Workplace by Sally Helgesen

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)
• End Imposter Syndrome in Your Organization, with Jodi-Ann Burey (episode 556)
• How to Create Inclusive Hiring Practices, with Ruchika Tulshyan (episode 589)
• How to Respond Better When Challenged, with Dolly Chugh (episode 615)

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Kathy Fiddler is the Vice President of Population Health for TidalHealth, a non-profit two hospital health care system on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. She has been instrumental in building community programs supporting improved access to healthcare services on the lower shore.

Kathy is a registered nurse and a retired Major in the United States Air Force Reserve. She served for 26 years in the US and abroad and supported Operation Restore Hope, Operation Desert Storm, and Operation Enduring Freedom. She is also a lifetime member of the Reserve Officers Association and a board member for the United Way of the Lower Eastern Shore. In 2019, she was recognized as one of the Top 100 Women in Maryland. She’s also an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy.

In this conversation, Kathy and I discuss her career growth over time from mostly clinical and operational work to leading at the executive level. We explore how being intentional about surrounding oneself with a diverse set of voices helps to both build confidence and surface better outcomes. Finally, we look at how working through discomfort in service of others can help us to make the world better through our work.

Key Points

• The work of a leader is very different than the operational and technical work most of us did earlier in our careers.
• Having a smaller meeting before a larger meeting can help a more introverted leader engage in the way they want.
• We sometimes sell ourselves short by concluding we won’t add value. By leaning into that discomfort, we find it’s often the case that others struggle with similar fears.
• Shifting from having the right answers to asking the right questions will help a leader to uncover what may have been unsaid that’s critical.
• Finding communities of other leaders helps you to find the diversity of perspective to support you building your own confidence.

Related Episodes

• Create Margin Through Intentional Leadership, with Amy McPherson (episode 429)
• Personal Leadership is a Journey, with Michal Holliday (episode 436)
• Lead Best by Being You, with Elena Kornoff (episode 474)

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Adi Ignatius is Editor in Chief of the Harvard Business Review Group, where he oversees the editorial activities of Harvard Business Review, hbr.org, and HBR’s book-publishing unit. Prior to joining Harvard Business Review in 2009, he was the No. 2 editor at TIME. He is the editor of two books: President Obama: The Path to the White House and Prisoner of the State: The Secret Diaries of Premier Zhao Ziyang. Both made The New York Times Bestseller List.

Adi lived and worked for nearly 20 years overseas. He was Editor of Time’s Asian edition and earlier served as Beijing Bureau Chief and Moscow Bureau Chief for The Wall Street Journal. He is also host of the HBR Channel. It is the 100th anniversary of Harvard Business Review.

Should leaders and organizations take a stand on current events, politics, or causes? Adi and I discuss this tough question in detail. While the answer will be different for every leader, we invite you to begin thinking about how you might approach this in your work.

Key Points

• The traditional advice of “Don’t talk about politics and religion” is still the norm in some places, but increasingly leaders and being more vocal.
• Silence used to be the default. Silence now many send a message that leaders and organizations don’t intend to convey.
• While every leader needs to decide how they will navigate this, beware your feelings of certainty.

Resources Mentioned

• Harvard Business Review

Related Episodes

• Start With Why, with Simon Sinek (episode 223)
• Handling a Difficult Stakeholder, with Nick Timiraos (episode 581)
• How to Begin Difficult Conversations About Race, with Kwame Christian (episode 594)

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Carol Kauffman is an international leader in the field of coaching and has more than 40,000 hours of practice. Her clients are C-level leaders and their teams or elite athletes and creatives. She was shortlisted by Thinkers 50 as one of the top eight coaches around the globe for her thought leadership, entrepreneurial spirit, and contribution to coaching best practices. She is a founding member of the Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coaches and ranked the number one leadership coach in the world. She founded the Institute of Coaching with a $2 million gift from the Harnisch Foundation.

Carol is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, a visiting professor at Henley Business School, and a senior leadership adviser at Egon Zehnder. At Harvard she launched the annual Coaching in Leadership and Healthcare Conference, one of the school’s most highly attended events. Her professional development program, Leader as Coach, won Harvard’s inaugural Program Award for Culture of Excellence in Mentoring and has been rolled out throughout the United States. She was also the founding editor-in-chief of Coaching: An International Journal of Theory, Research, and Practice. Carol is co-author with David Noble of Real-Time Leadership: Find Your Winning Moves When the Stakes are High*.

In this conversation, Carol and I explore the mindsets and tactics that are helpful when taking on a new, big leadership role. We discuss how vision, resolution, scope, and altitude play a key role in your success early on. Plus, we invite listeners to consider the importance of peer relationships and recognizing how others see you as your role begins.

Key Points

• Having the right altitude often means looking much more broadly at the organization and moving past a subconscious bias towards your old role or department.
• The “subject matter expert trap” is a common one. Your awareness will help you avoid it — or recognize it faster.
• Good peer relationships are one of the strongest predictors of success in a new role. Make time to build these critical connections.
• Learning to accept recognition is a key competency for an executive leader. Treat it as you would receiving any kind of gift.
• Have an enterprise mindset and remember that people perceive you as representing the organization vs. just yourself. Thinking like the entity can help you show up in the way you intend.

Resources Mentioned

• Real-Time Leadership: Find Your Winning Moves When the Stakes are High* by Carol Kauffman and David Noble

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• How to Manage Former Peers, with Tom Henschel (episode 257)
• How to Nail a Job Transition, with Sukhinder Singh Cassidy (episode 555)
• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)

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Joe Hart began his career as a practicing attorney. After taking a Dale Carnegie Course, Joe reassessed his career path and future, ultimately leaving the practice of law, going to work for a top real estate company, and then founding an innovative e-learning company and serving as president of health and wellness company. In 2015, Joe was named president and CEO of Dale Carnegie.

The CEO Forum Group named Joe as one of twelve transformative leaders, giving him the Transformative CEO Leadership Award in the category of the People. He is the host of a top global podcast, Take Command: A Dale Carnegie Podcast, and he speaks around the world on topics such as leadership, resilience, and innovation. He is the author with Michael Crom of Take Command: Find Your Inner Strength, Build Enduring Relationships, and Live the Life You Want*.

In this conversation, Joe and I explore how to discover another person’s values through meaningful conversation. We examine three types of questions to ask that gradually illuminate what’s important to another person. By knowing what to ask and what to listen for, we can uncover values without asking a more awkward question like, “What are your values?”

Key Points

Dale Carnegie invited us to, “Try honestly to see things from the other person’s point of view.” Use three types of questions to frame a conversation that uncovers another person’s values:

1. Examples of factual questions:

• How did you first find out about…?
• What keeps you busy during the week?
• What do you like to do for fun?
• What hobby or activity holds your interest?

2. Examples of causative questions:

• What got you interesting in doing this kind of work?
• How did you get involved in that hobby?
• What do you like about…?
• What caused you to enter into this industry?

3. Examples of values-based questions:

• Tell me about someone who’s had a major impact on your life.
• If you had to do it over again, what — if anything — would you do differently?
• Tell me about a turning point in your career.
• Tell about about something that you look back on as a high point or moment of pride.
• How did you get through a major challenge in the past?
• How would you describe your personal philosophy in a sentence or two?

Resources Mentioned

• Take Command: Find Your Inner Strength, Build Enduring Relationships, and Live the Life You Want* by Joe Hart and Michael Crom

Related Episodes

• Three Steps to Great Career Conversations, with Russ Laraway (episode 370)
• Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459)
• How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)

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Dolly Chugh is a social psychologist and management professor at the New York University Stern School of Business where she teaches MBA courses in leadership and management. She was one of six professors chosen from thousands at NYU to receive the Distinguished Teaching Award in 2020 and one of five to receive the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Faculty Award in 2013.

She has been named an SPSP Fellow, received the Academy of Management Best Paper award, and been named one of the top 100 Most Influential People in Business Ethics by Ethisphere Magazine. Her first book, The Person You Mean to Be has received rave praise from Adam Grant, Angela Duckworth, Liz Wiseman, Billie Jean King, and many others. She is the author of A More Just Future: Psychological Tools for Reckoning with our Past and Driving Social Change.

All of us know that we will be challenged by others. Sometimes how we see ourselves limits what we could do to change our behavior. In this conversation, Dolly and I discuss how we can do better and the mindset and actions that will help us move forward.

Key Points

• There’s no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.
• Nostalgia feels good to many of us, but can get in the way of us seeing the “ands” in situations and experiences.
• When we are challenged, especially in the context of identity, our tendency is either to deny, distance, or dismantle.
• Feeling of guilt and shame are indicators that there is an opportunity to change. The goal is not to avoid them, but to use them as a starting point for different behavior.
• Use values affirmations to give you a booster shot to prepare for the inevitable challenges ahead. These affirmations will help you respond in a more healthy way for everyone.

Resources Mentioned

• Dear Good People newsletter by Dolly Chugh
• TED talk: How to let go of being a “good” person — and become a better person by Dolly Chugh
• The Person You Mean to Be* by Dolly Chugh
• A More Just Future* by Dolly Chugh

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• The Way Managers Can be Champions for Justice, with Minda Harts (episode 552)
• How to Help People Engage in Growth, with Whitney Johnson (episode 576)
• How to Solve the Toughest Problems, with Wendy Smith (episode 612)